[soundguy]

i shoot some shoulder tenderizer stuff in the following:

375HHmag

458 lott ( also win mags in that gun )

416 rigby.

I have been slowly collecting my dies.. and found no brass.. so had to wait till i shot some of my precious and expensive commercial stuff.

still looking for a few odd pieces.. but so far I have everything I need to do my 375 H&Hmag

next will be the 458 and 416 rigby.

on the rigby I now have some brass. on the 458 I only have winmag brass. no lott brass yet. ( hope to rectify that in the next few weeks )

I havn't loaded for anything this big yet... would appreciate any insight and advice.

any of you that are relaoding these.. what are you using ont he 458 and 416 for projectiles?

I'm also getting ready to work up some 300 wthby mag. after doing some reading... I'm wondering what I will end up with. i ear weatherby does some proprietary stuff with powder and I won't be able to dupe that..?

thanks

 

[joe45c]

nope you are way way out of my league, 30-06 is my biggest, which is about .22 size in compairson to what you are loading. I like my right shoulder too much.

 

[myfriendis410]

The only big bore stuff I've done is in the 45/70 which is a different kettle of fish entirely.

I have loaded a fair amount of .300 Weatherby and can suggest a couple of things. IMR4831 and H4831 are both good powders, 200 gr. bullets seem to work best, and higher end loadings appear to give the best accuracy. I like the 200 gr. Accubond and the 200 gr. TSX. We were getting 3,150 fps out of the Accubond with 1/4" groups in an older Vanguard, and it's just plain nasty on big hogs and mule deer or elk. I prefer a Federal Magnum Match primer for loading this cartridge.

 

[aa1911]

.458 win mag is my pumpkin roller, it loads mostly like most other straightwall, not too many tricks.

Many powder loads are near compressed and a heavy crimp is often called for just to hold the bullet in place, with the Lott you shouldn't have near the compression issue although I would still do a decent crimp on it.

I'm not much help with bullets, I only cast for mine, never bought it any jacketed bullets! Mine is in the no.1 so accuracy has been a challenge but get yourself a good 500 gn bullet designed for 45-70 long range stuff to try out if you are going to cast for it. Buying bullets is just too expensive for me.

Don't know if it's just my setup but the primer pockets get dirty faster than any other caliber I have, they need a good scraping every reload.

I have produced best results (and least recoil) with IMR 4064 and 3031, FYI H4198 behind a 500 grn HURTS.

 

[Zhurh]

I've been thinking about a 458 win, but a buddy shot a nice blk bear 400 lber with his 458 and the bear ran right at him, second shot stopped the bear just 15 yards from my buddy. Wife and I were there and my buddy was stuttering up a storm the minute after it happened. Quite funny, and I couldn't convince my buddy the bear was running back to where he lived, not at him personally and all, ha ha. Anyway, that 458 didn't do it first shot.

My 30-378 with 99 grains RL-22 180 grain TTSX, leaves barrel 3280 and have loaded it up to 104 grains and it was going almost 3500 but tight bolt. The 30-378 really puts everything down and the the look on their face tells me they weren't taking another step. I really want a 338-378, but I don't see them all the time for sale used here in Alaska. I really like having the reach of 30-378 rather than the knock down of 338 win mag.

 

[jim brady]

I used to load for .458 Win Mag. (Have steel plates in my neck so that ended).

Problem with the .458 is either you want to load a range load that won't beat you up too bad, or you want full power loads that just a few at the range and you're ready to put it away.

I loaded 500 grain Sierra sp bullets with IMR-4895 powder. Those were brutal 95% loads. I also loaded my own cast Lyman 385 grain bullets with puffed wheat as a filler, and I could manage 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards with express sights. Those loads were about equal to a .30-06 with 180 grain bullets and a stiff load. The 500 grainers were extreme in recoil, muzzel blast and muzzel flash with the short 18" barrel.

 

[soundguy]

are you making your 458 with gaschecks?

what velocity are you looking at? any leading issues?

if you ever cast up any of those 458 again.. care to sell a few?

.458 win mag is my pumpkin roller, it loads mostly like most other straightwall, not too many tricks.

Many powder loads are near compressed and a heavy crimp is often called for just to hold the bullet in place, with the Lott you shouldn't have near the compression issue although I would still do a decent crimp on it.

I'm not much help with bullets, I only cast for mine, never bought it any jacketed bullets! Mine is in the no.1 so accuracy has been a challenge but get yourself a good 500 gn bullet designed for 45-70 long range stuff to try out if you are going to cast for it. Buying bullets is just too expensive for me.

Don't know if it's just my setup but the primer pockets get dirty faster than any other caliber I have, they need a good scraping every reload.

I have produced best results (and least recoil) with IMR 4064 and 3031, FYI H4198 behind a 500 grn HURTS.

 

[soundguy]

I've been thinking about a 458 win, but a buddy shot a nice blk bear 400 lber with his 458 and the bear ran right at him, second shot stopped the bear just 15 yards from my buddy. .

From what I read, that's why the 458 LOTT was born. John Lott shot something ( cape buff? ) with a 458winmag, and then nearly got killed... so redesigned it as 458 lott.

I like my 458 lott.. I shoot winmags in it for range loads..

I was overjoyed when i found i could do that as 458 lott is rare rare rare here.. and 458winmag is only rare rare...

 

[soundguy]

I used to load for .458 Win Mag. (Have steel plates in my neck so that ended).

Problem with the .458 is either you want to load a range load that won't beat you up too bad, or you want full power loads that just a few at the range and you're ready to put it away.

I loaded 500 grain Sierra sp bullets with IMR-4895 powder. Those were brutal 95% loads. I also loaded my own cast Lyman 385 grain bullets with puffed wheat as a filler, and I could manage 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards with express sights. Those loads were about equal to a .30-06 with 180 grain bullets and a stiff load. The 500 grainers were extreme in recoil, muzzel blast and muzzel flash with the short 18" barrel.

i'll askt he dumb question..

why the puffed wheat? not good for free air space in that cartridge? my commercial winmags seem to have a bit.

 

[myfriendis410]

Usually small powder charges with cast bullets. The filler is to keep the powder consistently down by the primer.

 

[jim brady]

410 has the answer. The charges I used with those 385 grain cast bullets only filled about half of the case. I had much better ignition/accuracy when I started using puffed wheat as a filler. Have been reloading for many years, and I would not recommend doing that if you aren't ugly and have grey whiskers like me, or unless you do a bunch of homework before doing it.

 

[soundguy]

i might have ya on the ugly dept.
And I do have a long beard that is mor ethan 60% grey.. .. but I don't have enough time under my reloading belt to be expirementing yet.

 

[myfriendis410]

410 has the answer. The charges I used with those 385 grain cast bullets only filled about half of the case. I had much better ignition/accuracy when I started using puffed wheat as a filler. Have been reloading for many years, and I would not recommend doing that if you aren't ugly and have grey whiskers like me, or unless you do a bunch of homework before doing it.

My wife thinks I'm still cute, but you got the grey whiskers part right. I've used GREX buffer and more recently cornmeal. My accuracy load in the Sharps uses IMR 4198 and a cast 518 gr. round nose, ww, with an over-powder card and cornmeal. I get right at 1/2" at 100 yards for 5 shots with that setup.

 

[aa1911]

I think the Lott was born because of the compression issue with the powder in the .458, not because it needed more power. I've not had much compression problems with 4064 and others.

Soundguy, yes on gas checks, every mold I have for this is a GC design bullet. I've not shot them without the gas check yet (gonna try as it doesn't hurt anything) but I have had zero leading problems. The lead I have is a bit on the junk side, it's just what's left of a 500# batch of WW lead melted down, pretty sure there's some traces of zinc in it.

or I could make you some out of reclaimed shot, that stuff is nice and hard and would work well.

I've got a 405gn RNFP, 475gn RN, 500gn RN working right now, all GC bullets. The 405's have very little recoil (relatively) with about 63gns of 4064 behind them. Velocity is around 1800fps or so.

I'll have to pull up mold numbers but next time I cast some I can send you some to try out!

 

[myfriendis410]

If you want magnum performance out of a cast bullet you can always paper patch. Works almost as well as a copper jacket and you can drive 'em up at the high end of the loading spectrum with no leading at all.

 

[soundguy]

I think the Lott was born because of the compression issue with the powder in the .458, not because it needed more power. I've not had much compression problems with 4064 and others.

I got his name wrong i guess .. it's jack. here's a wiki article.. I could have sworn I have read it in a magazine too though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_Lott

I'll have to pull up mold numbers but next time I cast some I can send you some to try out!

Don't go to any extra trouble.. but if you are ever making some gascheck slugs, could you send me a couple to load and try. I'd be glad to pay the shipping, etc.

I'm not a caster, so if they have to be swagged or anything.. do you have that gear to make them load - ready?

thanks

 

[DocHolliday]

I dont load for the 458WM or LOTT but I do load for the 45-70 and I cast my own for my loads (350gr, 405gr, 430gr and 535gr sized to .460 but I can size to .459 and .458) I like IMR 3031, H322 and 2400
The 45-70 is a hoot to shoot.


Doc

 

[soundguy]

i've never shot one... how does it compair to 458winmag

 

[DocHolliday]

The 458winmag has a slightly longer case and they push it slightly faster then the 45-70 so it is a bit flatter shooting but the 45-70 will out penetrate it. I dont know if you would want to tone down a winmag but Randy Garrett did extensive testing on all of the 458 calibers and found that a hard cast bullet going between 1300fps to 1600fps is the best penetrating round. Here is a link to his tests with the 45-70, 458 Win Mag and the 458 Lott.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html

Now, knowing that if I had a 458 Lott it wouldnt penetrate as well as my 45-70 but I sure would love to shoot them!

Doc

 

[soundguy]

what about in fmj? seems like the lott should perform better, no?