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I put up a post complaining about my AR's accuracy. I also asked various sources for advice, and I was routinely told the AR-15 is not a sub-MOA gun. I was also told gas guns were not as accurate as bolt guns. I can shoot sub-MOA groups all day with an RPR, but the AR-15 was a problem.

Recently, I joined another forum, and they have instructional videos. You have to pay to watch. It's not a general shooting forum. It's only for precision shooters. The guy who runs the place gets into arguments with people because he insists gas guns are just as accurate as bolt guns. He says people don't shoot them well because they don't know how. He says bolt guns are easier to shoot, so people who shoot them well can't necessarily operate gas guns well.

He teaches SEAL's and Rangers to shoot gas guns, so I have no reason to doubt what he says.

I dug up his videos about semiautos, and I applied the information. Today I went out and shot at 104 yards, and out of 6 groups, 3 were sub-MOA, two were sub-MOA plus one flyer, and the last one was a mess. I believe the last one was bad because the gun was starting to hurt my shoulder. The buttstock is hard and pointed. It's not made for prone shooting, so one corner kept gouging me in the same place.

Anyway, I thought I would come here and follow up. I think this mid-tier gun will probably shoot sub-MOA consistently if I practice, get a better stock, and learn how to deal with the stiff trigger. Maybe this information will help other people who think their guns are worse than they really are.
 

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Mine is way better than I am. But it is an 18" .75" 1-8 twist, Wylde chamber with an air gauged stainless barrel. It came with a 3 shot, .383" 100 yard target shot in an indoor tube with Sierra 69grain SMK bullets. That all means if I handload a proper load, put a decent scope on it and stop shooting assorted 55gr rounds, I should see some good accuracy. It hovers around an inch at a 100 without my putting in the work I should. I'd love to put a Geissele trigger in it but just replacing springs brought it down to 3.5# iirr with a small glitch I can feel. I've had bolts I couldn't do that with, but I'm no bench rest shooter either. This shoots as well as I could shoot many other rifles and probably better - other than Dad's 40X .222 years ago.
 

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My experience has been that a heavy trigger really makes it difficult to shoot small groups. I can do pretty good with a trigger that releases at about 3 lbs. In my younger days I shot competitively and the boys with the gas guns (service rifle class) were right up there with the match rifle (bolt) guys.
 

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Just keep on shooting...do the right moves/same thing every time...never "plink",always have a target. Just shoot and shoot more,the one year(first,of course)I recorded all rounds-it was 35k...Getting paid to shoot,what a country,it's all about doing the same thing over and over to get better...then I realized I sucked :cool: after watching Pat Mac standing on a balance beam with a 40lb kettle drum straight up with the left hand while hitting 6" steel at 50yds with a Grock19...but I'm still trying at 65.
I'm truly amazed at the level of accuracy modern rifles are capable of...I've picked up rifles that I've never shot before and done 1-1.5" 10shot groups off bags...I look at targets and thank the Lord there are people producing rifles that make it look easy.
 

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I have a S&W with a stock trigger and a 1:9 twist. I'm not much on punching paper but I put it on paper at 50 yards when I first got it and most of the holes were close to touching. I can hit Coke cans out to 100 yards and I'm happy with that.
 

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We would like to know what technique you changed
 
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Long time Shooter. I was Shocked, how accurate an M16 with the peep sights was out to 400 yards easy - in Basic. 400 yard, two second random pop up targets was easy, if you concentrated and tried your best. I qualified "Expert."

Had a lot of confidence in my Weapon after that.
 

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Long time Shooter. I was Shocked, how accurate an M16 with the peep sights was out to 400 yards easy - in Basic. 400 yard, two second random pop up targets was easy, if you concentrated and tried your best. I qualified "Expert."

Had a lot of confidence in my Weapon after that.
Always heard the service rifle could out shoot most shooters.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We would like to know what technique you changed
I can't really replicate the training videos in a forum post, but you want the gun situated so you are managing recoil, and you have to have proper follow-through with the trigger. Hold it all the way back until after the shot lands, and then release and reset.

You can't let the rifle float around. A bolt gun is much more forgiving. Gas guns reveal bad technique.

I'm paying $20 per month for access to the videos, and they're worth it.
 
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The military? I'd rather join the Air Force.
 
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The standard AR triggers are nasty. Some makes take some break in before they shoot accurately. But the AR is a very accurate platform.

Recoil on an AR? That "float" you're talking about is probly the buffer sliding back and forth inside the stock(the weight that absorbs most of the recoil.) BTW, I'm an Air Force vet.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I used the term "float" to describe bad recoil management.
 

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I used the term "float" to describe bad recoil management.
1 - natural point of aim(assume a comfortable position with the muzzle pointing in the general direction of the target)
2 - keep a consistent sight picture.
3 - Focus on the front sight.
4. - manage breathing and fire at the same point in your breath cycle everytime.
5. - slow steady pressure on trigger.

Do these 5 things and "float" will not be a concern.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
There's actually a lot more to it.
 

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I was very surprised at how accurate my AR was. It's a Ruger base model. I got it so cheap I couldn't pass it up. $489 new in the box. I wasn't looking for one but I wasn't going to pass this up.

I took it to the TFF BBQ a few years ago. George Moody set up the sight for me. Out of the box it was doing nice groups. It has a bad trigger but it is consistent. Last year my son got me a nice Vortex scope for it for Christmas. I still need to site it in. I also want to get a good trigger for it. My guess is one-inch groups would not be a problem.
 
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I’ve got a couple of AR’s one being a Rock River Arms predator with a 20” heavy barrel guaranteed to shoot 3/4” groups, mine shoots better with factory ammo Hornsby Superformance 75 grain bullets and does better with handloads. The other one is a S&W M&P15 and shot about 1.5” inch groups with the same factory ammo. Switched ammo to hand loads and dropped a Timney 2 stage trigger and now shoots moa groups.

Trigger control and follow through is very important and sadly something many shooters do not do. I recommend you practice a lot of dry firing with a dime. Get in the prone position place dime at the end of the barrel and squeeze the trigger. If dime falls your jerking the trigger. When you can dry fire consistently without the dime falling you are beginning to master trigger control.
 
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The one place I see being an accuracy issue with AR's is the upper to lower fit. Another is how the barrel, receiver and bolt line up. These can be addressed when building it. I did those on my 6.8, Boewulf and 7.62x39. The x39 blew my mind by getting sub MOA groups with Wolf steel case 124HPs. My 6.8 can hold its own. The Boewulf is a real treat considering what comes out the front. Basically chucking boulders at 2000fps.

The 2 problems I see with shooter skill is consisten cheek weld and stock placement. Another is direction of trigger pull and not yanking gun at an angle
 
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