[laserdoc]

Ok. Sort of embarrassed here,,not sure what the heck happened. I loaded 50 bullets at 4.6 grains of HP8 and around 30 rounds shot with no issue I had a major jam. The bullet would not eject and I had a heck of a time after taking the barrel out in getting the round out of the barrel. The bullet never left the case!! I had to take a dowel rod and tap it out. What happened to the center round. The rest of my shot loads look like the outside ones the center one was the problem. By looking at these shot rounds what happened here?? By looking at the other primers are they ok or does this mean the load is to hot. The only thing that was different is I just got a new dillion beam scale. I had been using a cheap digital one so I'm not sure what happened

 

[agedhunter]

I haven't been loading that long ( so take this for what it's worth )
ALL of those out side primers look like over pressure. primer crater??
If I saw that in my loads I would not shoot the rest and check my powder and scale.

 

[Clipper]

Sounds like a short powder, or NO powder load. I don't know what you use as a dispenser, or if you check each case after filling the powder, but you have a goof of major proportion here.

 

[carver]

Ok. Sort of embarrassed here,,not sure what the heck happened. I loaded 50 bullets at 4.6 grains of HP8 and around 30 rounds shot with no issue I had a major jam. The bullet would not eject and I had a heck of a time after taking the barrel out in getting the round out of the barrel. The bullet never left the case!! I had to take a dowel rod and tap it out. What happened to the center round. The rest of my shot loads look like the outside ones the center one was the problem. By looking at these shot rounds what happened here?? By looking at the other primers are they ok or does this mean the load is to hot. The only thing that was different is I just got a new dillion beam scale. I had been using a cheap digital one so I'm not sure what happened

I can tell you that all these rounds are too hot, over loaded! Don't shoot anymore of these. I would like to see you break this post down, it is so poorly written that I really can't understand what you are saying. You can't have bullets that are too hot, and still have bullets stopping in the barrel, unless you forgot to put powder in that round!

 

[laserdoc]

New Dillon beam scale. No powder load???? Not sure that's why I'm asking. Use a hornady dispencer with the micrometer on it. Once set I have not seen it drift.when I did pull the bullet I had no powder come out .I don't know if the primer itself would cause this or what. If I had a no powder load would this have caused this???? As far as the loads being to hot by looking at the other primers. I was at 4.6 at 1110 fps Load data says max is 4.8 at 1135,so I was still under by 25 fps. This was the only load that this happened to. When I decided on 4.6 I had started out at 4.0 and went up by 2 grains and watched my groups get tighter.
I just pulled two of these bullets and measured the loads. They both measured 4.5

 

[X Ring]

First off, the primer alone can start the bullet down the barrel.
Second, regardless of what the book says about your load those primers should not look like that, stop shooting them.

 

[laserdoc]

First off, the primer alone can start the bullet down the barrel.
Second, regardless of what the book says about your load those primers should not look like that, stop shooting them.

I will stop shooting them. But now I'm confused on where to start my loads at. I had started at 4 grains and worked up and was careful with my fps not to reach the max

 

[LDBennett]

laserdoc:

The load you said you used is for 115 grain bullets. Is that what you are using?

The "cratered" primers may be from a loose firing pin in the breech face. The primer can flow around the edge of the primer if the firing pin to firing pin hole fit is too loose.

As for the center case, that is a squib load (no powder). The primer goes off and like any cartridge the primer moves back in the headspace of the gun until it reaches the bolt face while the cartridge case is held against the chamber wall by the internal pressure from the primer. In a normal cartridge with powder, the powder starts burning and the pressure rises and pushes the case back against the bolt face, reseating the primer. In your center case the primer came out and formed around the firing pin but since the pressure was so low the primer face was not flattened as in the other cases you show.

So your problems may be two fold. First is that the firing pin fit to the firing pin hole MAY BE too loose and you had a squib load (no powder). Since you used a powder dispenser you had better figure out why it failed to deliver powder....was it you or the measure???

In addition you should have no worry about a new scale IF (!!!) you check it with precision scale weights. Lyman makes a handy set:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/612694/lyman-scale-weight-check-set

Don't reload without verifying that the scale is correct.

I do not think your loads are too hot IF you were using 115 gr bullets. Many guns make primer craters like yours but an inspection of the firing pin hole is in order.

LDBennett

 

[garydude]

Many guns make primer craters like yours....

LDBennett

That's for sure. My dad has a Beretta Cougar that will crater the primer at starting charges. Laserdoc go back and check the primers at the 4.0 charge and see if you find craters there too.

 

[laserdoc]

I'm shooting CZ's but I will load some 4 grain loads and check it. I'm maybe thinking a squib load??? The gun is a new CZ rami. Maybe 100 rounds through it at the best so I would not think the firing pin is to loose. I do have a 10 gram weight that came with my digital scale and used it on the dillon beam. Both scales weighed the same/ Me or the powder measure??? I bet me before the powder dispencer. My bullets are 115 grain lead round nose from Missouri bullets

 

[garydude]

Laserdoc, LD Bennet gave you perfect advice. There really doesn't seem to be a problem with your load, just your loading technique. Figure out where you went wrong with the powder charge (you or the drop) and try again. By all means use perfect diligence and double check VISUALLY every charge you throw.
Good luck!

 

[laserdoc]

Yep I'm really thinking I missed a powder drop. I had 30 in a tray that I move the tray each time I rotate the handle. I bet I missed one. Thanks LD Bennet for hitting the nail on the head (I bet) you are right about missing a powder drop

 

[RockinRiley]

Sounds like you are new to reloading, please take a minute and discuss more before you make another mistake, above you were asked what grain bullet you are using.
I would like to know everything.
Grain bullet,
OAL,
Primers used

Many things could have caused this, also what gun are you shooting these out if?

OAL could have caused this. That primer above does not look like you missed a load, but possibly overcharged, but OAL can do the same thing if too short. Much more pressure and you could have a real problem!

 

[laserdoc]

Gun is a new CZ RAMI 9mm. Maybe 100 rounds through it
Missouri 115 grain LRN bullets .356 dia. With 4.6 grains of HP-38 powder fps on these are 1110 fps
Winchester primers
OAL is 1.055
crimp .377
I have done a plunk test into my barrel and they clunk and turn with no issues.
I also have a Wilson 9mm shell gauge that I drop my loads into after I seat every bullet. They are slide in and out very easy and are flush with the surface of is. Actually love this little gauge and I check everyother round with it. They all pass

 

[LDBennett]

laserdoc:

Did you not say you removed the bullet from the errant round and there was no powder in it? If that is the case then that is the problem with the center case and nothing else. A case with no powder is most certainly not over loaded with powder as suggest by some here.

Your concern with the rest of the cases is because of the way the primers look. Many guns leave the primers looking like yours and only a tighter fitting firing pin hole will make primer look different than yours.

Also I explained why the primer on the errant case looks as it does.... because there was no powder in the case which means no gas pressure to reform the primer to look like the rest.

All the talk of cartridge gages is irrelevant to your problem at hand.

The bottom line (forgetting about the look of the primers) is you need to figure out how that errant case missed getting powder. Was it you, the methodology used to charge the case, or a bad powder measure/dispenser?

LDBennett

 

[laserdoc]

laserdoc:

Did you not say you removed the bullet from the errant round and there was no powder in it? If that is the case then that is the problem with the center case and nothing else. A case with no powder is most certainly not over loaded with powder as suggest by some here.

Your concern with the rest of the cases is because of the way the primers look. Many guns leave the primers looking like yours and only a tighter fitting firing pin hole will make primer look different than yours.

Also I explained why the primer on the errant case looks as it does.... because there was no powder in the case which means no gas pressure to reform the primer to look like the rest.

All the talk of cartridge gages is irrelevant to your problem at hand.

The bottom line (forgetting about the look of the primers) is you need to figure out how that errant case missed getting powder. Was it you, the methodology used to charge the case, or a bad powder measure/dispenser?

LDBennett

LD, I'm still beting I missed a powder drop. But just to show myself and all others I,m going to make a few loads at 4 and 4.2 and take pics of the primers. As metio ed before I have loaded around a 100 loads at this 4.6 and all went well except with this one. So I bet it was me and missing a drop as I moved my tray with about 30 cases in it to my dispencer.

 

[gdmoody]

doc, I suggest that you mount a light of some kind above the place you do the powder drops. When you get through dropping the powder, take o few extra seconds to LOOK into every case before you move to the bullet seating operation. I used a flashlight before I put one of those cheap clip on shop lights above my operation. I learned this the hard way, too.

 

[243winxb]

Yep, no powder in the one. Try a different primer or a magnum primer with a thicker cup. See if you still have primer flow.

 

[ampaterry]

laserdoc, are you using a chronograph to find the speed of these, or are you taking it from a load data chart?

 

[laserdoc]

Using a chrono. the loads at 4.6 are 1113 fps.
Here is a picture of my CZ RAMI and some more loads I shot 15 min ago.
I loaded 3 of each/ 4.0,4.2 and 4.6
All have the same looking fired primers so I guess as LDBennett said "Many guns make primer craters " the CZ are one of these guns.
from left to right of the shell casings are 4.0>4.2>4.6
I guess after all of this it was a missed powder drop. Thanks to all that chimed in on this issue!! Will always double check my powder drops now