Binghamtom : They waited an hour ?

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by SARG, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. SARG

    SARG Member

    Mar 25, 2007
    I'm not sure how accurate this news report is, but what do you think?

    Police heard no gunfire after they arrived but waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers. They then spent two hours searching the building.

    The Binghamton Chief said he and his officers were there two minutes after the 911 call. Why wait for an hour?
  2. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    Well I am no police officer, but they are no soldiers. I guess they decided not to make a move until a) they had exhausted attempts at a 'peaceful' solution (Political) and b) didn't want to move until they knew exactly what they were up against, (number of men, arms, locations, phone number, favourite colour etc.).

  3. GunHugger

    GunHugger Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2007
    SW PA
    Remember Columbine? The police did nothing...until it was way too late to save anyone. They stayed outside hiding, too scared to face two punk kids with guns. If I had a child in that school I would have went in since the police were totally worthless.

    I have a CCW for protection. Calling the police is the last thing on my mind.

    I watched yesterday as the police ran up the sidewalk...and then hid behind cars and walls while people inside were being shot. What good did they do?
  4. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2007
    Rochester, NY
    That was exactly my reaction too, when I read that in an article this morning.

    An hour????? What the heck are we paying these guys to do anyway.

    Maybe it would have been different if it had been a school. But, that's inexcusable.

    You're trained and paid to be in danger. GO IN!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Watch how quickly though, and willingly, they'll go in to remove the guns from law abiding citizens when the order comes down. Or, disarm you at various road check points. Will probably be military too by then, in addition to police.

    We are in biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig trouble. :mad::eek:
  5. artabr

    artabr New Member

    Mar 3, 2008
    New Iberia, Louisiana
    Now that I think about it, the media WAS calling this a "hostage situation".
    I bet what happened is this guy shot all of his victims within those first two minutes (naturally, that what always happens at these shootings :rolleyes:) BEFORE they arrived.
    The LEOs never heard a shot fired. Sooo they thought it was a "hostage situation". Cluster****.
    The shooter was probable dead before the cops even got there.

    I hate to see this. I'm about as pro LEO as it gets. :(

    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009
  6. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    A wretched hive of scum and villiany
    Part of the problem is that the cops are bound by a bunch of BS regulations. I know we've all seen cops get sued by the families of criminals that killed killed in the commission of a crime. The PDs are too worried about liability and being sued to actually do anything.
  7. SaddleSarge

    SaddleSarge New Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    There's a big difference between "active shooter" and non active shooter. I'm not going to arm-chair-quarterback what I wasn't privy to and what hasn’t had time to be analyzed at this point.

    If the shooter isn't active, the responding officer(s) could go into an ambush situation, as mentioned...a possible hostage situation, awaiting man power to do a complete building search, triage, etc.... If it's not safe for them, they can't have unarmed medical personnel attending to victims in an un-cleared scene.

    Not having an active shooter changes tactics dramatically and they don't know if there are other suspects in the mix as "victims." Need we merely remember Oakland recently with highly trained SWAT Sergeants making entry/search of a shooter that was not active at that time.:(

    As far as Columbine goes, it was unfortunate that the SOP was clearing room by room by SWAT. Departments across the nation have changed their philosophies/tactics of entry in active shooter situations with various tactics for the first responding officers to aggressively go after the active shooter. I may take a bullet, but I'm getting that SOB that's killing our children before I draw my last breath.

    Again, active vs non-active shooter changes the game plan dramatically.
  8. 94z07

    94z07 New Member

    Feb 28, 2009
    I think of the police as one leg of the tripod that upholds the law. The other two legs are the moral fabric of society and the courts. Society’s morals should introduce mostly law-abiding citizens into the next generation. But the liberals have taxed us to the point where both parents have to work, one paying the taxes for the other most of the time. And the liberals told women that they are failures if they can’t raise children and be top flight career ‘womyn’ too. So the left erodes away the moral fiber. They tell us there is never a case of right and wrong, never a case of individual responsibility, and everything that goes wrong is the fault of traditional values. The courts are supposed to back up the police by ensuring that once the police have done their jobs that the bad guys get removed until they are no longer a threat. The reality is that everyone seems to plea down his charges and, in particular, gun related charges, to the point that punishment is not feared by the bad guys. They don’t even have to fear the death penalty in many states. They know that “life in prison” isn’t life but really 21 years and one-third time served with good behavior turns that into 7. Also, there are too many “second” chances. So yeah the police can’t protect us. They were never supposed to. They are only one part of a solution. And of course the ACLU helps make the police weaker all the time. They cry out against the use of less than lethal weapons and then sue when less than lethal weapons are not used. They tell us that young women can be just as good at policing as men but then take away the very tools that would make this possible. There used to be nets that the police used. Literal nets not dragnets. They would toss them over people like “motorist” Rodney King and wait for him to stop struggling before they cuffed and stuffed. But our anti-American neighbors on the left said that was racist and inhuman. So b-bye nets, hello lawsuit.

    /rant off
  9. hkruss

    hkruss Active Member

    Mar 13, 2008
    Mobile, Al.
    94z07, you put it perfectly!
  10. glocknut

    glocknut Active Member

    Dec 14, 2003
    Columbine...Virginia Tech... and now this one. They're all the same... wait until everyone on the inside is dead so the politicians can scream for more gun control on the law abiding. Some things never change. :mad::mad:

    The Democrat and liberal politicians have no common sense what-so-ever.
    Nor do the zombies who vote for them...

  11. FJF0311

    FJF0311 New Member

    Dec 8, 2007
    Mt. Airy, MD

    I agree. I am not gonna second guess them on this one. I'm sure at Columbine many wanted to storm the school, Then the "What ifs" start.
    What if your actions cause the shooter to start killing, if it is a hostage situation?
    That's why I opted for The Marine Corps, over the Army. As a general rule, the Marines are used as shock troops to storm a enemy position. It is real easy to tell the bad guys from the good in this situation. generally, 'If it ain't Marine Corps green, it dies."
    The Army, gets stuck with "Pacification." such as patrolling streets looking for car bombs. you know how to tell the difference between a peaceable citizen, and a car bomber?
    The car bomber goes "BOOM." when your next to it!

    I can't imagine the self doubt a LEO must go through, not knowing if they should wait, or not. and if they make the wrong decision, some innocent going to die.
  12. Vladimir

    Vladimir Active Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Issaquah WA
    +1 My dad is no longer trained to wait for SWAT, he is trained to corner the shooter- then wait for SWAT :D.

    Maybe size of city is a factor here? Is it a tiny city, cops may not be funded and trained for this kind of thing. I mean I am sure they are but maybe not to the degree you would see in like Seattle or NYC. This could be a tiny department?
  13. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

    Jul 11, 2007
    Jackson County West Virginia
    Police are not super heros. Just in the past week or so 7 were killed (4 in Oakland & 3 in Pittsburgh) in the line of duty. They waited an hour before doing anything? I am sure that a lot was going on in that hour that is not visable to the public at large. Rushing into an area unprepared can lead to disaster. Like it or not one of the prioritys was to contain the shooter and keep him or they from entering more populated areas.

    There is always the chance that bombs were set. There is always the chance that the intended target is the responding LEO. It was revealed today that the shooter was wearing body armour. This guy had an agenda and was not going to be stopped short of completing it. It is sad that so many were killed but the carnage could have been much worse.

    I can't comment if the police did a good or bad job because I just don't know. I do know that cops die too when shot and that they leave behind families when they are killed. I would hope that they acted in accordanance with departmental rules and policies when they responded to the situation. I am also happy that no LEO lost his life that day.
  14. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

    Apr 1, 2007
    Anytime they wait,

    They are not doing what we as tax payers are paying them good money to do. The reason we hire them is to protect and serve. By waiting to let shooters carry out their intentions, they are not doing the job they are supposed to do. They should realize this right off when they are trained and equipted. They should accept the risk of being killed in the line of duty, as part of the job. Just like the people who are in the military do. Anything less than taking this risk, is just unacceptable. They are trained and should be willing to mix it up with who ever is doing the shooting. To just stand and wait outside, with guns and bullet proof vests, till the shooting stops makes them no more usefull than a civilian. Just ask anyone who is inside of a building, and watching those around them being shot, for their answer to this question. JMHO, Best regards Kirk
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009
  15. fyrfly

    fyrfly New Member

    Feb 15, 2009
    It's a small city. About 45, 000 population.