Bullet Coding = Gun Control

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by Agentwil, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. Agentwil

    Agentwil New Member

    Feb 9, 2010
    Article by Stu Wayne

    I have recently been informed of legislation presented in eighteen states which, if passed, would seriously impact all gun owners and especially sport shooters. If this bill comes to your state, I urge every gun owner to do all you can to keep this proposed “bullet coding” legislation from ever becoming law.

    A group calling themselves Ammunition Accountability is behind this. Their web site shows the versions being considered by those eighteen states where their legislation has already been introduced. They also link to a sample bill they are encouraging other states to introduce.
    The proposed bill requires that all handgun and “assault rifle” ammunition be coded on the base of each bullet. It furthermore specifies that only such coded ammunition be allowed to be sold or possessed by January 1, 2011. It imposes record-keeping requirements on manufacturers, vendors and government agencies so that every bullet may be traced from manufacturer through to the end user, effectively creating a registry of ammunition owners.

    While this bill is being presented as a crime-control bill, nothing could be farther from the truth. I object to it on three grounds; that it will seriously impact all legitimate users of handguns and supposed “assault rifles”, that it is unworkable with the most widely used ammunition, and that it is designed to infringe upon our right, under both the United States and many state Constitutions to keep and to bear arms.

    Impact on Sport Shooters

    A huge number of the handgun rounds fired for sport, target practice and competition are hand-loads. This is simply due to economics--hand-loads are much cheaper than factory ammunition. Of course they have another advantage; they can be tailored specifically to the sport and firearm used as well. I have hand-loaded and shot over 5000 rounds per year when actively involved in Police Pistol Combat, or PPC, a target game originally designed to enhance police marksmanship. When I was most active in this sport, a single day’s shooting-–300 rounds--would have cost $72 for factory ammunition, where my hand-loads cost me only $12. This proposed legislation, if passed, would simply make hand-loaded ammunition illegal, making many competitors unable to afford their sport!

    It would additionally impose cost penalties on users of factory ammunition because it would restrict the variety and quantity of available ammunition, increase record-keeping costs passed on to consumers and add an additional tax to the cost of each bullet to pay for the program.

    Unworkable with Much Ammunition

    Cast lead bullets and full metal jacket bullets both have a lead base exposed. The heat of propellant gasses would obliterate any coding impressed into those bases. That is likely true even if lead substitutes were used for the bullet core. These are exactly the bullets most likely to be used for practice and target sports. Under this proposal, such bullets might well be made unavailable because of concern over the “rendering unreadable” provision of Section 5.3 (in the sample bill). If that concern were ignored and such exposed-base bullets were to be coded anyway, erosion of the base upon firing would still defeat the supposed purpose of the bill--to enable identification and tracing of bullets used in crime.

    That concern would, of course, not bother anyone planning illegal use of uncoded ammunition, it would only affect legal ammunition users. There is a sufficient backlog of uncoded factory ammunition and components available today such that any criminal would be able to find untraceable ammunition for years to come and to manufacture it forever. In addition, stolen and smuggled ammunition--as stolen guns are today--would be used in such a disproportionate number of crimes that traces would likely be found fruitless.

    Violation of Constitutional Guarantees

    Registration of firearms is contraindicated by many state constitutions and the federal constitution. The United States legislature has repeatedly struck down attempts to make permanent files of background check information, believing such to be registration and therefore an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.

    Ammunition historically has been considered as “arms” for constitutional purposes. To a possible future tyrannical government, a list of who owns what ammunition is effectively the same as a list of who owns what guns. Registering either stands opposed to every idea of Americans as citizens with individual rights, rather than as subjects to be exploited.

    To conclude, this bullet coding proposal is an infringement on the rights of legitimate gun owners and shooters. It has sufficient practical limitation as to make it worthless for law enforcement; rather, it will create an increased burden on them as well. It would only serve to severely restrict the legitimate use of firearms and not impact criminal use. I urge you to watch out for this legislation when–-not if, but when–-it comes to your state and to do everything in your power to defeat it.
  2. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

    Feb 21, 2010
    Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin
    They can't enforce a law until they have the technical difficulties ironed out and a lot of ticked off constituents will be screaming bloody murder whenever it comes up for discussion. Add ammo manufacturers, and their lawyers, gun manufacturers and their lawyers and all of the gun lobby's these morons will be ducking and dodging and hanging onto their political seats for dear life. Best bet is to take names and campaign for their opponents but not to panic.

  3. Silencer

    Silencer Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2003
    Southern California: Inland Empire
    I believe the owner of the 'micro printing' process needed for this to happen is a pro-gunner and he would never allow this to happen.
  4. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    He's only a pro-gunner if it pertains to him.
    Another embarassment for the state of Washington.:(

    The whole concept is for personal monetary gain. He pitches it out there with the hopes that somone will jump on his band wagon.

    The idea is flawed from beginning to end.

    You can't stamp the bullets.
    You can't engrave the firing pin cuz it will only be filed down.
    The government would have to reimburse you for your ammo.
    What if someone stole your coded ammo?

    This will never go anywhere.
  5. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    The owner of the patent of the process is the one pushing this.

    Whether it works or not is not the question. If it passes and the process doesn't work, that will fulfill the desires of the grabbers. No ammunition will pass the test, so none can be sold. BINGO, wishes fulfiled.

  6. larryg

    larryg New Member

    Dec 29, 2009
    SW Ohio
    Does anyone have a list of states and bill numbers so we know what to work on?
  7. Agentwil

    Agentwil New Member

    Feb 9, 2010
    Yes I know this plan of serial numbers on bullets won't work. You know it and I know it but the problem is the idiot politicians don't and that worries me. THink of all the stupid laws and stupid ideas that have been passed or attempted in this country. After all it's not their money that their spending. We need to be pro-active in stopping this crap.
  8. gdlindy

    gdlindy New Member

    Mar 1, 2010
    Arizona; God, Guns & Sunshine
    Bleeding Liberal HYPE!!

    What it is worth, I had a conversation last may (09) with representatives of Olin-Winchester. I was the military rep. conducting a T&E of 9MM & 5.56 (.223) Frangible and semi-frangible rounds (for training ammo use better enviormental & less $) when several of our instuctors cornered the O-W reps on "bullet coding".

    Per their comments; (these are the guys who would know cause O-W makes or contracts out over 90% of ALL small arms ammo used by our military and are the reason for the shortage of primers) The cost would be way too high and the military will not pay those rates, because every round would need to be documented, recorded and controlled made anywhere.

    Also, one statement; Lands & groves" alone would remove most if not all of the ID not counting what would happen when the soft lead makes contact with a hard object. Placing the ID code on the bottom of the round? Not feasible $$$$

    This was stated by the Hitler youth Pelosi (sorry about the slam against Hitler I know he doesnt need that connection...yea that was a joke) and a few East cost liberals who think our technoligy can create, maintain, control and monitor such an action.

    Q: Who will have the detection device for this. Each round needs it's own serail number? We fired over 1 million rounds that month. that was just us.

    Who has the manpower to regulate and investigate every incident...don't look at BATF...So the cost is beyond just controlling and maintianing the "ID stamp machines" the regulation will not be doen by state agencies. They could not afford the manpower, plus, public servants are being laid off. local PD? Do that or patrol your streets...we are the citizens who would be raising hell about that one.

    HYPE! I dont see it, it just another way for "them" to keep us spun up and not looking into why we are sending so much money to foreign countries for BS funding in so called "grants". But then again, what do I know. I am just a public servant.
  9. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 16, 2009
    North Florida
    lindy, I agree with most of what you said. What bothers me the most is that there are idiots out there with this mindset that are in power positions. It is a mental disorder and should be dealt with accordingly. The liberal machine is grasping at straws. This is total nonsense.
  10. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Jul 28, 2008
    DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of E. Texas!
    Check out their web site at: http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/default.asp

    They have a map up that shows the states involved. Click on legislation at the top of the page.
  11. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR Active Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Imperial, MO
    Two things right off the bat come to mind with the web site that carver provided. First the legislation for missouri shows that this is on the docket and is being considered. 1 I have never heard of this coming out of missouri. second. I have a client that works for the Missouri dept of public safety (they would be the ones enforcing this database) he tells me that they do not have the means or resources for doing any of this. For god sakes he says they still use VHS tape for surveillance.
    Now on to the marketing of this BS. If your trying to sway people to join you and want backing from the general public, why on earth would you have such a worthless turd of a web site. It makes them look really really amateur and that this is a flash in a pan type thing, (which I hope it is) so lets just slap a web site together and talk people into thinking this is a good idea.
    All this is going to be is another useless database of information that is just going to lead LEO in the wrong direction just like NICS. Guns that are used in crimes are generally stolen or not registered, ammo is just going to follow.
  12. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2008
  13. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    "A licensing fee for each bullet sold would also be required".


    20 billion a year sold in the US alone.
    How many usolved homecides do we have in a year?
    This technology will reduce that number by?

    I can't imagine any of those 'licensing fees' getting kicked back to the supporters of the idea.:eek::rolleyes:
  14. lentz

    lentz Former Guest

    Mar 12, 2010
    Some people it seems, loves to live in fear.Afraid of everything.
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