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Discussion Starter #1
just picked up a small treasure trove of 45-70 'stuff'.

got a box of mixxed, assorted ammo with many different head stamps and prokectile types. some lead, some jacketed. maybee 10 different head stamps

notic eth rim thickness varies gretly.

most are brass cases.. some appear to be copper washed. a few are nickel.. and at leas a few appear to be steel???

never seen a steel 45-70 case


ont he projectiles. some are seated deep and i guess using a small projectile so that only a tip of the ogive is outside the case. some exhibit a heavy crimp. even a taper at the top like a nagant round where the cse tapers in around the projectile. havn't seent his either.

on the primers.. some look odd.. liek they have a lil hole in them. not a dimple.. but a hole in t he center.

with that mixed lot i'm afraid to shoot any of it.. will just pull and re use the projectiles and some of the cases if i can. not sure I can pull some of the heavy crimped ones.


got 2 butter buckets of used brass. some of it appears to be a hair shorter and trimmed. any issues on this? thinking no since it HS on the rim.. right?

have yet to finish digging in the box to see what all i got ( yardsale find ).

I'll try to lay the loaded rounds out and take pics when i get near a camera later today.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
here are the pics.

note the heave crimp on once of the cartridges , 1 fromthe bottom. it tapers over the slug.

the 3 cases that are not brass colored. I initially thought the shiney one in the center was nickel ( think it is ).. and the other 2 might have been steel due to ther dull finish.. however they pass a magnet test.. so? unbuffed nickel maybee? aluminum?

then there is the case with no headstamp. have plenty of those. and the cases witht he hole in the primer. it's a hole.. not a dimple.. and there is another surface under the hole. it's a loaded case.. not a dummy. you can hear powder int here.

how about that one with the super small slug?

ideas?
 

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Re: bunch of 45-0 stuff / questions

That's quite a treasure-trove you have there, Soundguy! I haven't found much on early .45-70 balloon head case headstamps, but I'd bet that is what the unmarked case is. Not sure about the case with the hole in the primer.

One of the cases looks to be loaded with a round ball. I can very well be wrong, but it sure looks like it to me.

You've been around the block a few trimes, so I'm sure you already know the caution of not reloading balloon head cases. I've never seen a pewter-colored .45-70 case, either. Some of the older cases seem to have a high copper content.

Great score! I'm sure some collectors would love a crack at that stash. Might have a few surprise dollars there.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: bunch of 45-0 stuff / questions

the loaded ammo.. I must have a box of 50 rounds at least. like I say.. all mixed.

some balloon.. some looking copepr washed or high copper content. some shiney nickel.. and some that dull metalic silver ..

many are laoded with various flat or round nose lead.. some are laoded with copper jacketed stuff similar to what i see on some 458 lott / win mag loads. etc.

I have only seen cases like the non head stamped ones a few times while collecting milsurp.

just really havn't dealt with them any from a reloading standpoint.

I believe the balloon cases are like the folded head cases.. and if you look inside there is a hump where the primer sets.. not like a modern solid head case.

i wonder if some of these are old black powder loads.. makes you wonder what age they are.

some of the more modern ones I may pull down for the projectiles and cases.. but them old and odd looking ones... Probably leave em just liek they are. :)

still can't figured out the primers with lil holes in them...
 

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Re: bunch of 45-0 stuff / questions

this would be a balloon head style right? just making sure we are talking baout the sme thing.

i borrowed this pic off another 45-70 board. this happens to be a cbc case after fireing during a test.
 

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Re: bunch of 45-0 stuff / questions

I think Jim is right about the one. A round ball. Called a "Gallery load". For short-range targets, or possibly small game.

Here's a picture showing (with 45 Colt, but it's all the same) balloon head vs modern solid-head.
 

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Re: bunch of 45-0 stuff / questions

yep.. that's what AI've seen.

not a solid web.

gallery load huh.. never heard of them :)

very interesting
 

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Re: bunch of 45-0 stuff / questions

Looking some more. I suspect the shiny one, 2nd from the top, is a new case, since it has a extractor groove machined into the head. Same as the L/H case in my picture. They couldn't put that groove in balloon-head cases. Would make the wall too thin.

The two dull white ones I suspect are "tinned". Maybe for Navy issue on shipboard, but certainly to prevent corrosion. Brass don't rust like steel does, but it still corrodes.

I think the round-ball is a reload. The cannelure on the case is to give the bullet a little shelf inside the case, to sit on. That would make it a modern smokeless powder load, as black powder had the bullet seated right on the powder. No need for that shelf. But that cannelure is waaaay below where the bottom of that ball is gonna be.

That would, in my opinion, make #3 very old, #1 and 5 pre-1900, and all the rest, probably, since WW2.

Never seen a primer with a hole in it, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: bunch of 45-0 stuff / questions

i'll dig thru the box and get more pics.. that's just the handfull I pulled out to photo this am.

i figured some of them must be pretty old.

that copper colored case, straight and all.. and then funny 'white ones' were odd.

I do see what are probably a couple new cases.. like the one with the machined groove you saw.

looking at the bases.. I say many different rim thickness differences. the thickest ones look modern with the squared off edges.. the thinner ones even look beveled slightly.

always neat findig odd stuff.


don't bother me that the 50 or so laoded ones are probably useless to me for reloading.. i must have 70-90 empty modern cases ( some hornady.. ho hum ) in 2 butter tubs.. plus i got a set of dies rcbs i think, and paid 35$...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i'll check and look for any dates.

some of it deffinately looks old. some have lead projectiles with the white powder on them i see on real old lead balls..e tc..
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i looked at mine yesterday some. i do see some that couple be late 1890's

impressive that they are still around...
 

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You got some old stuff there allright. The white powder stuff on the bullet is lead oxide, just from laying around for a century. The lead in the bullet has just oxidized over time. The hole in the primer, I would guess and this is just a guess is from the corrosive compond in the old primer. It ate right through the primer. I have seen some of this in old shotgun shells.
A small warning to you. Don't lick your fingers after handeling these old cartridges. The lead in the oxide form is absorbed through the intestinal wall fast. New lead will go right through ya but in the oxide form your blood lead level with go up fast. I made my living owning a radiator shop. Cleaning old rad parts was where we had to be carefull.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
i hear ya on the lead. I've done electrical and solder work for decades and am pretty carefull about cleanup and exposure. but thanks for posting it. others need to hear it as well. and never hurts to get reminded.

ont he primer holes. it's for sure machined. many ar elike that. silder outter shell.. brass collored inner shell. hole is exact on then. can't believe it ate thru exactly on multiple shells..

You got some old stuff there allright. The white powder stuff on the bullet is lead oxide, just from laying around for a century. The lead in the bullet has just oxidized over time. The hole in the primer, I would guess and this is just a guess is from the corrosive compond in the old primer. It ate right through the primer. I have seen some of this in old shotgun shells.
A small warning to you. Don't lick your fingers after handeling these old cartridges. The lead in the oxide form is absorbed through the intestinal wall fast. New lead will go right through ya but in the oxide form your blood lead level with go up fast. I made my living owning a radiator shop. Cleaning old rad parts was where we had to be carefull.
 

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Not sure, wish I could help you on the R-P. But I think that Peters was the shell and cartrage division of the company. I think I have some old Peters shotgun shells some place box and all. I think they date from the 1930's. but not sure. They were in some my dads old stuff. If I find them I will post a picture.
 

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In the 1880s Remington was bought by the company that also owned Union Metallic Cartridge. There was UMC ammo, but about the purchase it became REM UMC ammo.

There was another ammo maker. The Peters Cartridge Company. Remington bought them sometime in the 30s, and the ammo became Remington Peters - RP. And they still mark it RP. So your RP 45/70? Sometime between about 1932 and now.
 
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