C&R Records Question

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by cointoss2, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. cointoss2

    cointoss2 Guest

    griz
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (4/7/02 5:08:37 pm)
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    As a fairly recent C&R License holder I have not had cause to use the disposition side of my "bound book" yet, only the acquisition side...much to ms. griz' dismay. In reviewing the fine print in my copy of FFL Regulations Reference Guide I have noticed what appears to me to be a conflict or typo.

    In the sample format for Firearms Collectors Acquisition and Disposition Record...under the Dispoition heading...following Date, Name and address or name and license no., Date of birth if nonlicensee, the next column heading says "Driver's license No. if licensee or other identification if nonlicensee". Is that statement referring to his drivers license and not his FFL license? It seems to me this should read "drivers license No. or other ID if FFL nonlicensee", since we already have his name and FFL in column two if he is an FFL holder.

    In the fine print above the sample format in the regs it states: "...the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee..."and further on "...cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in a manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a drivers license).

    My question are this: (1)In transfering a firearm under a C&R and selling to a FFL holder is date, name, address, and FFL license # enough, or do we need his drivers license # also? (2) If selling to a non-FFL license holder is just the drivers license # enough or do we also need a copy of it on file if buyer is not an FFL holder?

    Thanks for any input you can provide.

    Edited by: griz at: 4/7/02 6:16:03 pm

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 2127
    (4/7/02 8:08:35 pm)
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    For transfer to another FFL (C&R or regular FFL) you just need name, address and FFL number. For a non-FFL, you need their name, address, and driver's license number (or other ID that verifies their identity, like an Armed Services I.D.) You do not need to have a copy of their license on file. Just get the info logged in.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    gdibig
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (4/9/02 3:39:15 pm)
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    I'm pretty sure about this, but...

    From what I read on the BATF page, C&R holders do not need to keep a bound book.

    Somebody else might want to double-check me on this.

    K75RT
    Member
    Posts: 25
    (4/9/02 6:34:57 pm)
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    Gdibig,
    I think you might have been misinformed. One of the requirements for having a C&R License is the keeping of a bound book. For more info check out www.cruffler.com
    If you believe it is reprehensible to possess the will and means to repel a criminal assault...how can you rightfully ask another to risk his life to protect yours?

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3323
    (4/9/02 7:12:57 pm)
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    Yeah, we have to keep them. It's spelled out pretty plainly in the ATF regs, s 178.125 (f) "Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors" on page 70 of the 2000 Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide.....

    While few of the other regs like 4473s, NICs, etc, apply, that is one of the biggies...even if after you GET the CRFFL, the ATF sends you like a years supply of all the forms they tell you you don't need.....and none that you do....

    And CRAP I just remembered, when I sold my Astra without including the "Child Handgun Safety Act" handout or whatever it's called...first time I ever sold a CR handgun, and I forgot...I wonder if I should send it to the guy so I can say I did....

    ...no, wait awhile, I transferred it to an 01FFL receiving for the guy, so technically I didn't have to, right? THAT dealer needs to do it when he transfers it to him...I think....

    Geez this stuff sucks!

    But back to the topic, I've always wondered why the one thing ALL FFLs need, the "Bound Book," is NOT a government supplied form.....at least there would be uniformity, wouldn't you think?
    "Don't hear him call you an ---hole, hear WHY he's calling you an ---hole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"

    gun runner john
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 534
    (4/10/02 8:53:53 am)
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    Quote:
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    From what I read on the BATF page, C&R holders do not need to keep a bound book.
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    I can only hope you're NOT a C&R holder that has bought lots of guns and not kept records! You most definitely do have to keep a bound book if you have a C&R license!