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Discussion Starter #1
So years ago when I owned my first Garand I cleaned them just like we cleaned the club’s Garands, through the muzzle, usually with a GI range rod, but many times with the sectioned GI rod😳

But since then I’ve gotten older and wiser and have a helluva lot more experience cleaning very accurate rifles and even with a muzzle guide putting my one piece Dewey rod into that “0+” muzzle was like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. Plus I know all about the controversy whether muzzle erosion on an M1 is caused more by shooting or cleaning rods😎

What alternatives are there besides a bore snake or getting a true “false muzzle?”

What do you guys use?

And not until I saw a picture in the GCA journal did I ever see a guy clean his M1 upside down in the vise, so the solvent doesn’t drip into the action/stock when the brush and patch hit the breech, why didnt I think of that?😉

Plus I swear by Sweets 7.62 and good old fashioned Hoppes 9 but what solvent do you guys use?
 

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A plastic soda straw or the plastic tray from inside a package of bacon will protect the bore. Cut a small piece about 1/2" X 1", wrap it around the rod, insert into muzzle, and hold with one hand while working the rod with the other.
 

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I'm gonna get flamed but here goes. I dont buy into the theory that cleaning a gun from the muzzle has any effect on accuracy. I have been doing it using Dewey coated rods for over 30 years and have not had any deteriation in accuracy period. I have never damaged a crown or had any issues pushing any crap into the receiver. I also do not use a muzzle guide. I primarily use Hoppes 9 and or Hoppes lead remover if needed, hit it with a brass brush, run a Jag and some patches thru it and I am good to go. If I am going to store it for a while maybe a patch with some oil on it down the tube. Just my 2 cents. Let the flaming begin :cool:
 

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I'm gonna get flamed but here goes. I dont buy into the theory that cleaning a gun from the muzzle has any effect on accuracy. I have been doing it using Dewey coated rods for over 30 years and have not had any deteriation in accuracy period. I have never damaged a crown or had any issues pushing any crap into the receiver. I also do not use a muzzle guide. I primarily use Hoppes 9 and or Hoppes lead remover if needed, hit it with a brass brush, run a Jag and some patches thru it and I am good to go. If I am going to store it for a while maybe a patch with some oil on it down the tube. Just my 2 cents. Let the flaming begin :cool:

Not flaming ya for that statement because I totally agree, If your muzzle is so sensitive it cant take a wee little aluminum rod brushing up against it then maybe it shouldn't have a chunk of lead screaming down its
throat at 3,000 FPS.
I always thought that was hogwash, I clean all my lever guns from the muzzle and they are as inaccurate as the day I bought them. :whistle:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If you are arguing that damage to muzzle crowns dies not affect accuracy then I have to respectfully disagree😎

That ship has sailed...one of the best ways to improve accuracy on any rifle that has lost its accuracy is to shorten and recrown, and that has been known to precision rifle shooters since smokeless powders was introduced.

Plus it also matters as to relative accuracy. You will probably not notice a change in “Combat Accuracy,” or “Minute of Deer,”😉. But to guys where 3/8ths to 1/2” at 100 goes to .75-1” with all things the same is a big deal, it is noticeable.

Plus, match Garand shooters all swear that while your “TE” number is “interesting,” your “ME” number is “everything” when it comes to potential accuracy.

Now the question as to what CAUSES Muzzle Erosion is where the fun begins...I don’t think anyone can argue that the hot gasses escaping around the bullet at “escape” don’t cause at least some of the damage...

...but likewise I don’t think anyone can argue that the sectioned steel rods used by hamfisted GIs to clean their issue Garands didn’t cause some of the “5” readings on the barrels that otherwise don’t look like they were shot that much...

Plus anyone that has ever “sporterized” a surplus Mosin Nagant and got it to really shoot has “recrowned” it. I’ve done two that I’ve worked with extensively and one Russian went from about 4” at 100 to a little over 2, when I cut and crowned and my Polish M44 went from about 3” with S&B at 100 to 1 1/2” with just a recrown after I did all the other work...

But just about ANY Finn Mosin I’ve owned or shot is more accurate than a Russian...

The Russians taught their conscripts to clean their Mosins from the muzzle for some reason...while the Finns were taught from the breach...coincidence?😉

I think shooting causes unavoidable ME, BUT that is no reason not to do everything you can to protect it when you clean it...

But then again, just using a one piece steel and/or coated rod might be enough for most people?
 

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I've gone with a bronze bore guide for cleaning any firearm that must be cleaned from the muzzle end. The rod I use has a bronze guide that works from everything from .30 caliber on up.

The G.I. sectional cleaning rods are good for what they were meant to be: a way for a soldier to clean the rifle in the field. If you go way back in history here in the U.S., the .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield rifles were issued with a cleaning rod that was built into the stock. These rods were meant for field use. When the soldier returned to Garrison, they used a wooden cleaning rod with a jag to properly and completely clean the weapon.

Sweets 7.62 is a great solvent for removing copper fouling. Hoppes is a great solvent for carbon fouling. Hoppes will slowly work on copper, but Sweets is more aggressive - BUT must be used with more caution to avoid any etching of the bore. Another good product - if the bore is still a tad "dirty' after the Sweets - is to swab the bore with JB Bore Paste. That usually gets rid of anything left inside the bore.

For a heavily fouled bore, I use Hoppes to cut thru the carbon, then Sweets to remove the copper, JB Bore Paste to polish up the bore and Hoppes again to clean the bore up - then completely dry and apply a light coat of gun oil to protect the bare metal.
 

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Not flaming ya for that statement because I totally agree, If your muzzle is so sensitive it cant take a wee little aluminum rod brushing up against it then maybe it shouldn't have a chunk of lead screaming down its
throat at 3,000 FPS.
I always thought that was hogwash, I clean all my lever guns from the muzzle and they are as inaccurate as the day I bought them. :whistle:
LOL, you are correct on lever action accuracy, that's certainly not what they are know for, but I over look that shortcoming and love them anyway :)

If you are arguing that damage to muzzle crowns dies not affect accuracy then I have to respectfully disagree😎
No argument here regarding the crown being akin to accuracy. My point was if you use the right tools and care you can clean guns from the muzzle without doing any damage to the crown.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Jim. Funny I was always doing it wrong, Sweets then Hoppes. Your way makes more sense.

And guys don’t sell your lever guns short, my Marlin 336 20” in .35 will put the first three from a cold barrel at 100 into a little under an inch, and MOA is always considered “sniper grade accuracy.”😉. Many other lever guns can do the same.

The problem is when I try the SECOND 3 shots it will open to 1 1/2” and the third 3 I’m lucky to be under 3-4MOA. OR try a 5 shot group, the 4 th and 5th are already opening up from the heat.

The only reason handy leverguns have the “inaccurate” label is when you try to “benchrest” them in a long shooting session against bolt guns, with your lightweight barrel against their free floating heavy barrels,,,THEY take a lot more heat in their barrels before the groups open up plus they don’t have foreends and tube magazines and barrel bands and sights and whatever hanging off that barrel that all heat up at different levels and messes with the harmonics. Plus the two piece stocks don’t help.

But from a cold barrel, those first couple of shots can group! Which is all you need for hunting....

But IF you could mount a heavy barrel AND free float it, have it touch NOTHING, and somehow bed the action solidly, theoretically there is no reason to think a lever gun could NOT be made to shoot as accurately as any other rifle...bolt or otherwise....
 
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