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Discussion Starter #1
Posts: 1
(1/3/03 11:02:50 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All Colt Gov't Property Marked M16A1
Hi All,

I'm in the process of looking for a factory M16. The thought of looking for a USGI property marked M16A1 crossed my mind. The one thing I do know is I don't want a reweld. So what's the skinny on looking for one of these desirable property marked MG's? Does anyone have any information that could be helpfull while I look around? I'm particularly concerned about how I can possibly verify that a particular MG is not a reweld. I've heard with Norrell's rewelds even the BATF had to use some voodoo to verify that he was indeed rewelding. I realize that a reweld is supposed to have the c2 listed as the manufaacturer of the MG and also his name/initials on the receiver. But it seems even this isn't a "sure thing". That's part of what concerns me.



*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 6771
(1/3/03 9:03:31 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Colt Gov't Property Marked M16A1
If it is marked "US PROPERTY" it is a reweld...period!
No US PROPERTY M16`s were ever released to the public, only parts and cut-ups.


Posts: 1
(1/19/03 4:23:55 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Info (Tony K)
A few routes in which some of thee guns did make it into civilian hands....
-- an amnesty registration would pretty much guarantee it was an uncut original ( it would have to have been issued to troops, damaged or used up, demilled into scrap by the US Govt., bought by someone and rewelded. I really doubt any M16s were demillled before 1968, much less rewelded back up)

The other known routes for uncut US Property-marked M16s to become transferable are:

--1. Guns that were manufactured but for some reason never left the factory, and were later sold off as overruns or tool room samples. Colt, H&R, etc. had pretty extensive in-house collections that ended up in private hands.

--2. Guns that were delivered to the US govt and later presented to high officials or celebrities. JFK had one, Westmoreland prolly had a rackful, etc. I believe John Wayne was given one after "The Green Berets" was filmed. You had to be a pretty high muckety-muck to get one of THESE party favors. You'll rarely find one for sale without a lot of historical info.

--3. Guns that were delivered to the US govt. and were later given to museums, and subsequently sold off by the museum curators. There are a fair number of these -- for awhile, the govt. was pretty generous to museums, and then after 1986, when MGs became so valuable (and many museums fell on hard financial times) they got sold off. In many cases, the museums do NOT want to publicize the fact that they sold off donations (it's legal, but it doesn't look good), so these often do not have supporting paperwork (other than the Form 4).

--4. Guns thart were delivered to the US Govt. and later given/sold to US agencies, which in turn traded them in for newer weapons and the C3 dealers resold them. There are a fair number of ex-DOE and ex-DEA M16s out there, some with US Property markings.

You're most prone to finding M16s from categories 3 and 4.
One point: The 1986 ban made all machine guns illegal. The only exception to this was if a machine gun was manufactured AND was registered prior to the cutoff date. The Catch-22 is that the US Govt does not have to register its machine guns -- only the ones it gets rid of (see #s 2,3,4 above). So the transfer paperwork for these should be dated from the day the US handed them over to the third party, NOT the date of manufacture.

Thus, the FOI request for an M16 made in 1967 that served in Vietnam and was given by the US govt. to a museum in 1984 would list Colt as the manufacturer but would list the initial registration date of 1984, not 1967.
Univ. of Texas Medical Branch
(Original Factory Harrington&Richardson M16 marked "Property of US Gov't" with reciever X-rays and original paperwork.)
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