Could Jesus Have Saved Judas

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by Alaska444, Sep 1, 2017.

Was it ever possible for Jesus to save Judas?

Poll closed Sep 4, 2017.
  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Don't Know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Then why did Jesus say it would have been better if he had never been born?

    Are we forgetting Christ the judge?

    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Did Esau repent?

    Hebrews 12:16 lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

    Did Judas repent? Or, as I believe we see played out in court day after day, Judas was sorry he was caught and exposed for a thief and devil when he presented false airs as the most trusted deciple of the twelve, even trusted with their purse.

    He could no longer play the faithful deciple in public for all the people to take notice of him. Jesus exposed him for what he is, his gig was up. But I see no repentence, only remorse he was caught and exposed just as Esau could not humble himself unto repentance either even with all his tears.

    I believe Paul, as usual, has a clear voice on this issue and the outcomes of sorrow of Peter and Judas tells the entire story. Yes, both were made sorrowful, but only one repented:

    II Corinthians 7:For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. 9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
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  2. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    When I wrote "created" - I speak in the sense of the mortal being of Jesus. As far as the Trinity - The Father - The Son - The Holy Spirit, I do not fully comprehend it all. When Jesus asked the Father to "take this cup from me", and, "Into Thyne hands I commit my spirit" - I take those words as Jesus is speaking to God, the Father.

    As a Christian man, I completely believe in the Lord, and accept Him without question as our Savior. I don't have all of the answers, and in my faith in the Lord, I don't need them. Even the wisest of men will certainly be amazed when it is their time to stand before the Lord. In that we are all truly equal.

    Comes the age-old argument: Is one man or one church greater, holier or wiser than another? I suspect (but of course I do not know) that men will be judged by the content and purity of their souls, as well as for their deeds.
     
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  3. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    No problem. It is just that some teach Jesus was created and became God. I didn't know where you were coming from on that one. Sorry for the misunderstanding on that.

    And yes, Jesus had to be talking to His Father in heaven as you state. It appears that Jesus really did not want the shame of the cross, despising it is what the Bible states. Jesus had His own will or perhaps you might say wishes, jy did it in obedience to His Father. This is just one more example of Jesus as our ideal on obedience and submission which is perhaps one of the hardest issues we have giving over to God.

    As far as who is holier and wiser, I am afraid there is only one and the rest of us fall short of the glory of God and there is none righteous, no not one. The total depravity of man starting with me is becoming more and more evident in my own life.

    That said, God did give us His word to understand who He is and what our work is. I don't usually quote so called Bible scholars or denominations, but instead what the Bible states directly. Man's so called wisdom fails dismally.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  4. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

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    The thing we need to remember is that JESUS had already been marked for death "before Judas betrayed Him. If it had not been Judas, another path to His death would have still been found. This was the path HE had to take to fulfill prophecy.
     
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  5. Armo

    Armo Member

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    By HIS stripes , we are healed,
    This applies to all who accept and believe
     
  6. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    While I agree with everything you've said here, I still believe that Judas was where he was, when he was, for a reason. A tool of Satan.
     
  7. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

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    A tool of Satan- YES.
    But, he was used by GOD to carry out the purposes of GOD.
     
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  8. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    So, could Jesus have saved Judas? I voted no, and still hold that idea.
     
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  9. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

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    I think if Judas had shown repentance after his betrayal of Jesus he could have been saved. Do we know that he was repentant? (It's not certain.)

    We know that he hated what he did so much he hanged himself. But, this brings up other questions about salvation, mental illness & suicide sending people to Hell.

    Then of course there is this scripture- "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Acts 16:31)

    Did Judas believe that Jesus was who Jesus said He was?
    Did Judas believe after he betrayed Jesus and this made him so distraught he gave himself the death penalty for his crime?

    NOTE:
    Judas didn't have the benefit of hindsight and the NT like we do today.
    The only thing he new was the Law and what the law demanded.

    Then, there is the question of predestination and how that would effect things.

    Interesting stuff- I refuse to believe "definitively" in either option.


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    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  10. BlackEagle

    BlackEagle Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I think Judas showed remorse, but not repentance. He tried to make things right on his terms, in his way.

    Peter denied Jesus, ran out on Him. He repented, came back to Jesus on God's terms.
     
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  11. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    From the moment Jesus chose Judas as His follower, the Scriptures woild be fulfilled.

    Can you lose your salvation?

    Judas would have been better off never being born. When did God know who would be saved and who would not be saved?
     
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  12. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Paul spoke of godly sorrow that leads to repentance.

    Then he spoke of earthly sorrow that leads to death. Esau suffered great sorrow and then sought to kill Jacob.

    Judas sorrowed and then sought his own death. Psychiatry believes that Homicide and suicide are both acts of extreme hatred causing immense grief.

    Judas evidenced no godly sorrow by his subsequent actions. There was no repentence. Sorrow and repentace are not the same no matter how many tears flow.
     
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  13. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    Matthew 18: 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

    Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

    II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
     
  14. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    Probably the best post of this thread! If Judas was a devil, just how could he be saved?
     
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  15. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Jesus cursed Judas because that wasn't why HE came and it's not we're taught in Scripture.
    I believe Jesus may have been speaking prophetically.



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