Could Jesus Have Saved Judas

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by Alaska444, Sep 1, 2017.

Was it ever possible for Jesus to save Judas?

Poll closed Sep 4, 2017.
  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Don't Know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. TigerLeo

    TigerLeo Well-Known Member

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    Let's go a step further...

    Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
    Matthew:5:5

    And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
    Revelation:5:9-10

    And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
    Zechariah:14:9
     
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  2. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Lost.
     

  3. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?

    John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Does anyone here believe that God created Judas to be a devil? Or that he was created to be a lost soul? I think not. God never created anything that was bad, or evil. So who was the father of Judas? And don't anyone here try to tell me that Satan doesn't have a seed!
     
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  4. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Carver, we know that the lost can be possed by devils but i wonder if they can procreate since the Bible states that the angels are neither male or female.

    But you hit upon two interesting verses.

    First, the fact that Satan entered into Judas shows his spiritual state. To save Judas, would not Christ have had to cast Satan out first?

    Some speculate that Judas will be the antichrist because of the II Thessalonians verse above.
     
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  5. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    Satan was never an Angle. He was a Cherub, and the Son of God before he fell. not as Christ, but like Adam.

    Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

    Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Say what???
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  6. TigerLeo

    TigerLeo Well-Known Member

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    Where did you find that?
     
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  7. drymag

    drymag Well-Known Member

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    I've bounced that around, so here is my take on this at this point in time: Since God knows past, present, and future. He also knows their choices they "did" make before they were born from out perspective, so hence He knows what decisions they "will" make from our clock in time. So I think it is more of a plugging in a person w/ the responses they will make that will accomplish His will. So no matter where Judas was in time and place, he would have made the choice to deny God.

    Of course, we will have to wait for the final episode so see how this really occurs.
     
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  8. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

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    OT- But, you know what I really love?
    I love to see a place where grown ups can talk about these types of things with respect and honor without some anti-God admin stepping in and stopping the conversation.

    Carry on my dear brothers & sisters. I feel so blessed to be part of such a great bunch of folks.
     
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  9. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    The Bible tells us explicitly that souls are written or not written in the Lambs book of life from before the foundations of the earth.

    Revelataion 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    That does away completely with the notion you can lose your salvation. The Lord knows those who are His.

    II Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.

    Lastly, we are predestined, but through God's foreknowledge.

    Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to hispurpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    We are thus predestined through God's foreknowledge of our actions and choices. This does away with both Arminianism and Calvinism in one verse. We are predestined and have free will choice at the same time.

    So yes, there is a "list" if you wish, from before the foundation of the world but none of us know who is on that list, only God and the Gospel is still what saves us and draws us to Christ. That is why soul winning is the great commission. Without the gospel, is there salvation?

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
     
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  10. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Amen, that is what makes TFF such a special place and I am grateful for this forum and pray it continues until the Lord returns.
     
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  11. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations!

    Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north.

    Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
     
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  12. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    Personally I don't believe in predestination at any time, or at any point in existence. If man kind is predestined then he has no free will, or free choice.
     
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  13. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    I certainly believe in free will and free choice, but the Bible clear states we were predestined and called in Romans 8:28-30 above. In Psalm 37, the Scriptires tell us the the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord. The verses on predestination are where Calvinists gain their doctrines, but they ignore the obvious free will of other verses.

    Romans states we are predestinated by God's foreknowledge. It seems to me what it is saying, that because God already knew everything we would choose, He intervenes to help guide us and direct us but gives us our free will. It is a paradox just as there are many simultaneous paradoxes with God that simply prove His thoughts are not out thoughts and how God exists outside of our abilities to understand Him.

    Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
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  14. Meroh

    Meroh New Member

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    From an historic POV, certain Orthodox Churches believe that he was, that his part was predestined to fulfill the gospel, and they name and commemorate him as a Saint.[​IMG]
     
  15. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, not to be sacrligious, well maybe a little, but,

    SAINT JUDAS, PATRON SAINT FOR ALL THIEVES, TRAITORS ABD DEVILS

    Pray to Saint Judas whenever you are arrested, caught or discover innocent blood on your hands.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017 at 3:11 PM
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