[soonerfan66]

Is Genuine Armory Steel same as Damascus steel barrel ? Been looking but can't find a real yes or no answer on it . Got my eyes on a couple older shotguns and one has the Genuine Armory Steel on the barrel . I know it is one of them that's called Hardware Store shotguns . Would be shooting mild black powder loads if all checked out . Even if I came across a modern SxS double hammer I plan to shoot brass black powder just for the sheer fun of black powder and old style shells . The thought of SxS double hammer and lots of smoke makes me grin .

 

[msheff]

Take this with a grain of salt. It's my understanding that armory steel was a marketing gimmick that meant fluid steel not Damascus, twist or laminated. It was used by Crescent on their hardware store guns.

 

[soonerfan66]

Does that mean fluid steel falls between Damascus and the modern steel of today ?

 

[msheff]

I would say yes. I believe it came out somewhere close to the early 1900's If you see it's safe to shoot I would only use low pressure loads by RST or Polywad or roll your own low pressure loads. That's all I shoot in my older SxS/s. My oldest shooter is an Ithaca Flues made in 1911. I have a Remington 1889 12ga made in 1901 I would like to shoot but the ribs are loose. Wouldn't be a good idea.

Does that mean fluid steel falls between Damascus and the modern steel of today ?

 

[sharps4590]

"Krupp Fluss Stahl" is fluid steel and there's no questioning its strength. I'd think the strength of steel in the shotgun your looking at depends greatly on who made it.

 

[soonerfan66]

Use to not be real interested in shotguns of any kind but will sound silly but watching some videos of people making up the brass shotgun shells got me going . Have got hooked into old rifles more then once for the fun of making and forming the brass and stuff . Seems you start hearing more talk on the types of steel being used in shotgun barrels then rifles and pistols . Didn't realize the many different ways steel and barrels were made till the shotgun seed got planted in my head .

 

[msheff]

@soonerfan66 lots of people still shoot Damascus guns. But they have them checked out first by a doublegun smith who is knowledgeable of Damascus

 

[soonerfan66]

Been reading how sometimes a Damascus barrel was not fixed in the right way like maybe it had got pretty pitted over time and it was reamed out which got the pits took care of but made the thickness of the barrels to thin and then someone else gets hold of it , looks sees a nice smooth bore and later bad juju happened . But also like was said if is in good safe shape and correct loads are used then fine .

 

[sharps4590]

There's several different pattern welded steels too. And more rumors about Damascus than truth floating around out there.

I personally know of a few British double guns with Damascus barrels that have been returned to Britain for reproof for smokeless loads and passed proof. Then there's all the British "Nitro for Black" loads that were suitable for guns and rifles that weren't proofed for Nitro that included Damasacus barrels.

Sherman Bell wrung out 10 old double guns with Damascus barrels, using Remington smokeless proof loads, two in each barrel. He wanted to see if they'd come apart. None did. Some were in excellent condition and some were .020 off face. Now, all those were British or Parkers or Elsies. Cheap Belgian Damascus probably would come apart but, so have some fluid steel guns. As with rifles, there all individuals.

 

[TRAP55]

Is Genuine Armory Steel same as Damascus steel barrel ?

Not Damascus, fluid cast steel. Crescent made them from the early 1890's to about 1932. Check your chamber length.

 

[Hawg]

I don't advise anybody to do this. I don't do it myself anymore but when I was a kid my dad was always buying and trading shotguns and pistols. Rifles some but not so much. Anyway when a new gun came into the house I was shooting it. There's no telling how many guns I shot with 2 3/4 inch shells in two inch Damascus chambers. I know some of them were Damascus because I always liked the pretty patterns on the barrels. I hunted birds and squirrels for years with an 1887 Winchester but those barrels weren't Damascus but the chamber is 2 5/8. I still have that one. I have an original percussion SXS with Damascus barrels I still shoot. I'm not scared of Damascus and maybe I'm a fool but it would have to be a pretty ratty set of barrels for me to not shoot them

 

[LimberJoe]

Growing up, 50-60 years ago, every old shotgun was referred to as "Damascus", and was relegated to an attic, basement, barn or closet. The common wisdom was that you couldn't tell the condition of a "Damascus" barrel by looking at it. It might look fine, but they were known to corrode from within the metal.

There is some truth to that, but I think it mostly was grounded in folks using modern ammunition in guns that were never intended to shoot higher pressure loads. Throw cheap Belgian barrels into the mix, and you've got some real grenades in your hands.

It wasn't until I was in my 20's, and black powder shooting started to take off in my region, that I learned a little more about these old shotguns. I learned that "Damascus" was being used to describe anything old, and forged around a mandrel. Genuine Damascus barrels were, in fact, pretty rare. What people were calling Damascus was really twist or laminated steel. The first time that I saw a Damascus star pattern on a double, I was struck by the beauty of the thing.

Anyway, I've been shooting muzzleloading shotguns (both original and replicas) for many years, and have a lot of fun shooting them (cleaning them, not so much.)

 

[LimberJoe]

Deleted double post.

 

[guntha45]

"Krupp Fluss Stahl" is fluid steel and there's no questioning its strength. I'd think the strength of steel in the shotgun your looking at depends greatly on who made it.

Sharps is right. Some of the proofed foreign damascus is just as stong as the "fluid steel" hardware brand shotguns from over here, even stronger in some cases. Prior to WWII some pretty low quality shotguns were being sold with little to no regulation.

 

[soonerfan66]

Well I won the auction and after I pick it up at the FFL will take some pics of it . I actually will be getting 2 shotguns !!! One of them things !! I put what I thought was a low ball bid on 2 shotguns not expecting for both to win !!! Will show both shotguns off . The other is a French shotgun . The wood really caught my eye on it and was expecting it to go higher so was why I also put a bid on the older one . The French is a more modern shotgun so believe can shoot modern loads if wanted to but of course will be giving a good checking over .

 

[soonerfan66]

Ok picked up the 1st shotgun today , the nicer French more modern one . Just wanted to post a picture of it then I will start another thread so can ask more detail questions on it . Also when the older sxs shotgun I was wondering about the barrels comes in I

will post pictures of it and ask info on it also .

 

[sharps4590]

Is it the shadow or does that double have a lot of cast off?

 

[LimberJoe]

Is it the shadow or does that double have a lot of cast off?

Sure looks like it. Pretty meaty through the wrist as well!

 

[Grizzley1]

Is it the shadow or does that double have a lot of cast off?

It might be the angle that he was holding the camera, it isn't looking straight down.

 

[TRAP55]

The LOP on the buttstock looks like it's about 16" too. Has some pretty wood hiding under that old finish.