Defending your home with reloads?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by dsv424, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. dsv424

    dsv424 New Member

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    I have heard in several forums that it is a bad idea to use your own reloads for home protection. Personally I feel more confident in using my reloads as opposed to factory ammo. For instance if I were to defend my home with Gold Dot 147 gr. 9mm that I made instead of purchasing them from Speer. What would be the tell-tale difference besides the powder that was used to make the round. Why would the discussion ever come up whether it was a reload or factory ammo. This is where my ignorance of forensics may come in at but why would anyone ever inquire as to how the ammo was produced. I mean a 147 gr. gold dot slug is the same in either case right? What am I missing here.
     
  2. JUNKKING

    JUNKKING Well-Known Member

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    I was told a long time ago never had it proved but the source was pretty reliable. That if you happen to shoot someone with a reload a good attorney will tear you a new you know what saying that round was manufactured to kill. LOL ummmm Why this would make a difference has me puzzled as it does you DSV. I honestly pray I never have to find out what it is like to shoot someone with a reload or store bought round. If I ever had to shoot someone I know in my heart I would not hesitate. If defending myself or my family I will deal with the consequences later.
     

  3. 94z07

    94z07 New Member

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    Suppose a guy is 100 yards away and armed with a knife, you shoot and kill him claiming self defense. Now suppose the guy is 100 inches away, armed with the knife and you shoot and kill him. Which senario would you rather try to argue was a good shoot?

    How can one prove that a perp was at a range of 1 foot and dangerous vs a range of 50 feet and not dangerous? At close range the burned and burning powder will hit your target along with the bullet. At a distant range the powder will not hit at all and only the bullet. If you fire a factory load then anyone can test to see how much powder should be present at various ranges. A lab will be able to determine the minimum and maximum ranges, at which, the powder stains on the dead bad guy's clothes could be made. Now with your home loaded ammo this is not impossible but more difficult. In a civil case, the standard isn't "beyond reasonable doubt" it is "preponderance of the evidence." Every detail that can be twisted against you will be.

    Now imagine a lawyer acting as if he can get into your head and reinact the event as he argues before a jury selected because they fit the profile provided by the jury consultant. He argues that you are obsessed with firearms. That instead of defense your motive was to test your loads for bragging rights. He argues that you were looking, hoping and even baiting people to break into your house so that you could live out your fantasy. All those hours and expense that went into training and loading and testing are proof that you are both clever and violent. So clever that you left your curtains open so that the world could see your big TV and AV gear as bait so that you could act out your violence with a plausable excuse.

    Load hotter than factory and you're looking to kill with one shot to prove how good you are. Load lighter than factory and you're so cruel that you want to ensure a slow death.

    So I ask you, "at the moment of truth, do you want any of these thoughts in your head to slow your reactions?"

    Interesting read:
    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-13984898_ITM
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2009
  4. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    I have some Winchester Silvertip 38 bullets. If I were to load them in the correct W/W marked nickel-plated 357 cases, and use nickel-plated primers and 296 powder, how in the world could the DA know they were reloads? I don't think he could.

    If, however, the bullets were Sierra JHC (I don't think there is any factory ammo loaded with that bullet), or the ammo in my gun had mixed headstamps, or the headstamp on my brass did not agree with the bullet type (like Remington Golden Saber 45 bullets loaded in S&B brass), then it should be pretty easy to figure out.

    But, even if I did it the first way. Or, for that matter, even if I used factory ammo, the fact that I have a reloading room set up could still work against me. "Oh, come now, Mr. Alpo. Do you expect the ladies and gentlemen of the jury to believe that, with all that thousands of dollars worth of reloading equipment you have in your ammunition factory, you bought factory ammo to use when you brutally shot down that poor, defenseless, 16-year-old child-gangbanger that was raping your wife?"
     
  5. graehaven

    graehaven Well-Known Member

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    A good rule of thumb is, "if you have to question it, it's wrong, don't do it."

    Guess what. DON'T tempt fate by messing around in this arena. There's too much at stake.

    The solution is simple.

    Just buy the factory loaded defensive ammunition, and use that for carry.

    Load all you want for target practice.
     
  6. 10 Spot Terminator

    10 Spot Terminator New Member

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    I actually use factory loads for home defense as some of the ammo I have would be damn hard to duplicate in that the bullets were never made available to reload . I have some black talon stuff that is fairly old but although taken away from law enforcement has never been made illegal and current production Hydra shock as well . I have the boxes they came in and would hate to embarass a lawyer in court to produce any statute where it says I am only allowed to wound those who mean to "KILL" me . Describe the word "defend" for me Mr. attorney in its entirety . What? No limitations ? No restictions ? So just why is it we are here again today in this courtroom ??? One of us is "GRAND STANDING" and the other is being harassed for envoking his constitutional right to "defend" his life . I will leave it to the good people in this coutroom to determine which is which ,,,
     
  7. A-grizzly

    A-grizzly New Member

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    i believe this correct. They recommend not to use handloads not because of reliability, but because of liability.

    grizz
     
  8. Apiarian

    Apiarian New Member

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    For years I have blindly accepted this reasoning. BUT WHY?
    I cannot find even one person who can quote ONE case where this was an issue. Can you?

    This seems to be some kind of urban legend.
     
  9. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'll defend my "home" with whatever I please. Handloads and factory rounds abound here in my private residence. If some DA doesn't see it that way, then they'll just have to give it their best shot and good luck making me a BG out of that.

    My "out in public" carry guns on the other hand are loaded with factory rounds so no one "could" make something of it if they wanted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
  10. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

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    Maybe no one has ever been prosecuted for using reloads for SD. Maybe no one ever will be. The posibility of it happening still remains, no matter how small that chance. I don't know about you, and your home, but if I captured, wounded, or killed a BG in my home today, the LEO's would arrive ASAP, after I notified 911. When they get to my house they will enter it to collect the BG in what ever state he is in. When the LEO's start to look around my home, they will notice the number of guns that are readily visible, and they will notice my reloading table as well. I have been trained all my lile to always be the best witness that I can be in the event of my witnessing a crime, LEO's are no different, and part of their training is also along those lines. That means that the guns visible, the reloading table, etc., will all probably end up in a police statement some where! Now, if the DA should look at those police reports and decide that he might could win if he prosecutes me .......................... Do you see where this is going? People have been prosecuted for using large caliber hand guns, I know of one case where a man was prosecuted for using a full auto rifle, even though his possesion of it was legal. I personally know of a law suit that was filed against Colt, Winchester, and a local Pawn Shop, when a disturbed young man broke into the Pawn shop, stole a pistol, loaded it, and shot him self. I Don't know how much money the family got, but I do know that Colt setteled out of court. Maybe nothing will happen to you if you use reloads as your SD ammo! As for me, well, Bryant's law was stolen by Murphy!
     
  11. Skyhook

    Skyhook New Member

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    It's all about 'behavior modification' via the legal system. A lot of folks are running scared of the lawyers and the stupid (ignorant) juries with good reason, I might add.
    Think OJ trial, here, ok?

    Who in the gun owning crowd actually thinks the jury sitting in judgment will be able to resist a glib, star-studded, lawyer's emotional pitch and use reason instead?
     
  12. Millwright

    Millwright Well-Known Member

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    Just remember the "jury of your peers:" is likely to be composed of the dregs of society unable/unwilling to "escape jury duty"......And you can't document the "fatal rounds" weren't "specials" because your equipment/process doesn't automatically log the data like the big boys do...So the prosecutor can almost "knock it in with his knees". Idiots with no gun/reloading/ballistics knowledge, (let alone experience-that's going by the wayside in jury interrogation), are going to be hit with a lot of abstruse opinions/lies regarding relaoading/reloaders and expected to make sense of it all as it pertaqins to the crime in question ! Most don't.

    Bottom line; kill'em with factory ammo if at all possible. Removes one area of uncertainity in a situation rife with them.... >MW
     
  13. 38 special

    38 special New Member

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    sounds awful goofy to me. I handload practically all my shells I find a load thats accurate in each gun and usually stick with that. It takes alot of trial and error to find the best load. Whether its a mild load, medium or hot load ,it will sure kill someone .I never gave that much thought. If I was carrying a gun strictly for protection I would still use my reloads cause I know exactly where they group and hitting what your shooting at is by far the most important factor as far as I'm concerned.You dont need 18 rounds just one.If a lawyer thinks reloads are some big deal,He's pretty stupid. A good defense lawyer I would hope would make him look like a complete fool. But then lawyers can pervert even the simplest of things.
     
  14. Haligan

    Haligan Well-Known Member

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    If your reloads are acurate and dependable use em'
    If your afraid of lawyers don't use em'
    I'm from NJ, it's gonna be a heck of a time proving justifiable defence anyway.
    If I'm given the choice, use factory, if it helps you sleep any better.
    My sleep has been pretty rough anyway.
    One thing I do know, if I need my round to go BANG, I know my reloads are gonna do it.

    Stay safe, use your noggin'.
     
  15. Trouble 45-70

    Trouble 45-70 New Member

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    Check Masad Ayoub, think I spelled that right. He might have discussed this in one of his articles. Made a believer out of me. Golden Saber or 12 gauge.
     
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