Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 6, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,133
    Location:
    Texas
    Jeff Fite
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (1/3/03 5:56:32 pm)
    Reply Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is President Bush right in urging the USA and other nations in going after Sadaam Hussein? Is Iraq really a threat to us or are certain economic special interest factors at work pushing for conflict. The President of the USA believes another international police action is going to make a differance. Otheres believe this is an immoral act on his part. What is your opinion?

    Results (total votes = 35):
    Yes, take out Sadaam ASAP. 19 / 54.3%

    No, we have other concerns at this time. 16 / 45.7%

    Vote Now
    Regards,

    Jeffrey Fite


    Jeff Fite
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/3/03 6:09:20 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My answer is a flat out NO. I don't like Sadaam Hussein either or trust him, but eight years of Comrade 'Josef' Clinton crippled our military to a diminished status. Our nation cannot defend our own borders from illegal aliens let alone attack Iraq in another stupid military police action. The very idea that moron Henry Kissinger was hanging around the White House is very troubling. Didn't he give Richard Nixon enough bad advice?

    I don't think that nuking Iraq would even be a moral problem, just not very practical. I support GWB in most matters but not this time.
    Regards,

    Jeffrey Fite


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5740
    (1/3/03 6:19:50 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think you are mistaken about our military and its ability to wage war and defend the borders.

    The military has not been given the job of defending the borders so I don't quite understand how you can say they can't do it.

    I also support GW but in this case I do not. I say let the lame UN take care of Iraq. Then when they fail it will give us a good excuse to pull out of the UN.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3029
    (1/3/03 6:20:46 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey, I don't favor war with anyone...except those trying to overthrow our way of life, liberty and the pursuits of our own happiness.

    Gunguy


    505799
    Member
    Posts: 20
    (1/3/03 6:44:34 pm)
    Reply Your poll
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You asked three questions.

    On the first question, ole' Georgie and the rest of his merry band of buggers haven't presented me with any valid reasons. Saying that Saddam is a threat isn't a valid reason. Saying Saddam is a evil, brutish, megalomanic, mass murdering son-of-a-pig ain't a good enough reason. Saying that Saddam is in material breech of a UN resolution also ain't good enough. Saying that Iraq is part of an axis of evil - nope - NFG. If Georgie and his buds have information that will make a case, why won't they show it? They say there is proof of the WMD in Iraq? Where is it? As the line goes: Where's da beef? And don't try that sources and methods line on me. Who (or what) are we defending?

    On the second, I believe it is special interests that want this war. Interests that President Eisenhower described as the military-industrial complex. Without going out and blowing the crap outta someone every ten years, they have a hard time selling new hardware to the government. I observe that the MIC now has a whole new market for its toys - the Transportation Security Adminstration.

    BTW, did anyone else see the CNN story that TSA has hired 33% more people (a total of 63,000 rather than the authorized 45,000) more than Congress authorized?

    On the last, by its very nature war is an immoral act. That doesn't mean I am opposed to war. Lots of wars the US has been in were necessary - wars like the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the US-MExican War, the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Persinan Gulf I, and Afganistan, to name a few.

    However, in this case, if we go to war with Iraq,it will be an immoral decision to commit an immoral act. It won't be for noble reasons. It will be the act of a son desperately trying to rectify the second biggest mistake his father ever made.

    In the end, my view is that the likelihood that we are not going to attack Iraq is zero. We've deployed to many troops not to. My only questions are these:

    How many of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines are going to come home in body bags? How many are going to come home injured or mained?

    Will Saddam decide that with nothing left to loose, why NOT use the WMD? And when (not if) he does, who will be the target?

    Will the other Arab states cut off the flow of oil?

    How will this war impact the US economy?

    Will this Bush have the stones to order someone to kill Saddam, consequences be damned?
    Will Iran be able to step into the void we create in Iraq and make it a Islamic government?

    What will the government do next? Decide that the government of Iran is a menace?


    hammer4nc
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 426
    (1/3/03 6:52:43 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I couldn't vote, your options were too limiting. Has anyone noticed that all of the negative rhetoric by the US has been directed at one man (Sadaam)?

    The way I see it playing out, we'll wake up one morning to learn that Sadaam has been taken out by one of his own senior aides, or forced to resign by neighboring arab country leaders...after which, *everyone* (meaning the USA, UN, EU, etc.) will be falling all over themselves to give aid to the new coalition government (with conditions related to WMD's of course). Food and economic aid will be lavished on the Iraqi people. The oil will start flowing again big time (benefitting all sides). GW Bush will be declared a genius, for having employed US military as a strategic tool, to force the regime change. Pundits will debate the details of the new regime, but mostly anything is far better than what presently exists...it would be hard to get worse.

    Sadaam's support in his country is a mile wide and an inch deep, owing in part to the fact that he routinely kills anyone who is *suspected* of not supporting him. Iraq had an election recently, where supposedly Sadaam got 100% of the votes. I don't believe that for a minute! We can and will take advantage of the desire of the Iraqi people for more freedom and self determination. I heard recently, that in areas of northern Iraq, protected by the no-fly zone, and beyond the reach of Sadaam, the economy is doing great, people are happy. That pattern could be extended to the entire country.

    Please note the above is just my opinion (and hope?). An alternative outcome, if you will, to the idea of a devastating war. I can't believe the smart guys in various diplomatic circles aren't moving in this direction. Just food for discussion.


    ysacres
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 522
    (1/3/03 7:22:36 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GWB said after 9/11 that we are at war with terrorism and any country that harbors terrorists.
    The Iraq dessert is a major training grounds for El Queda, the spy satellite pictures proved that.
    Saddum resorted to terrorism himself when he gassed 30,000 Iraqis to death for whatever reason.
    Hussain is just a raghead Hitler wanta be. I'm not for destroying the whole country with bombs and killing women and children in the process. I think we need to send 30,000 troops down his foxhole stick a scud up his scrotum lit the fuse and get out.
    wiseacre

    Edited by: ysacres at: 1/3/03 7:25:26 pm


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 706
    (1/3/03 8:20:45 pm)
    Reply Re:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I wuz (past tense intended) going ta reply with one of my usual tirades but 505799 done said it all and just left me plumb outta this 'un.

    So, what 505799 said, repeated...

    Thar.

    -- ND


    JBT1
    Member
    Posts: 14
    (1/3/03 9:23:15 pm)
    Reply Huh?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yea! Let's wait until he has nuclear weapon's before we do anything about the problem, it will be much safer then.....


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3030
    (1/3/03 9:45:06 pm)
    Reply Re: Huh?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If there is war he had damn well better not let our troops down for lack of military support, and that covers air, land and sea. NO MORE SOMALIAS!

    Gunguy


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5742
    (1/3/03 10:27:05 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Huh?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There are currently 430 nations that have Nuclear technology.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    JBT1
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (1/3/03 10:49:21 pm)
    Reply Uh Huh...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Having nuclear technology and actively seeking to build nuclear weapons are two completely different matters.
    Saddam is capable of anything, that's a given. If you want him to have nuke's then by all means let him have them. But I sure as heck don't want to hear any whining 5 years from now when he drops one on Israel or someone else. we will then find ourselves in the middle of a whole new ball game, as they say.

    In fact lets not raise a finger to prevent any country from having nukes. Let's go one step further, I say sell everyone the technology. we will all be a lot safer when, lets say all of South America has nukes...even Africa..let's not forget them.


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5744
    (1/3/03 11:03:23 pm)
    Reply
    Is a nuclear winter warm?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I should have expanded on my thoughts when I made that last post.

    Just saying there are many countries we could choose to go after that are full of bad guys. The nuclear "threat" would be ideal reasoning to do so. Look at North Korea, next year we will probably be sending technicians over to help them run their nuke program, cause we sure as heck are avoiding any talk of stopping them. Now isn't there a huge irony here in relation to North Korea and Iraq? Kind of makes it hard to fall for the Iraq war theory.

    I think the US acts a bit to much like the neighborhood bully and we should be staying home and minding our own business and defending our own country. Let the rest of the world kill each other off if they want because it is not our problem. To many problems in the USA that need to be taken care of before anything is done or any money is spent in ANY other country.

    IT IS ALL CAUSED BY GREED. The world everywhere whould be a much better place if people could just mind their own business.

    on the fields the bodies burning
    as the war machine keeps turning

    evil minds that plot destruction
    sorcerers of deaths construction

    death and hatred to mankind
    poisoning their brainwashed minds

    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 779
    (1/4/03 1:52:41 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: Is a nuclear winter warm?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wow, piggie! You's a Metallica fan?

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The military has not been given the job of defending the borders so I don't quite understand how you can say they can't do it.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You know, that is exactly the problem. I just got done reading an excellent book called "Rise to Rebellion" by Jeff Shaara, about the events leading up to our war for independence from England. It's interesting to note that our original Continental Army was only supposed to exist to oust the British, and then be dissolved. The general feeling back then was that "a standing army is a threat to liberty".

    It's also interesting to note that aside from fortifying our militia forces at the siege on Boston, that one of the first acts of our new Continental Army was to invade Canada!

    Anyway, I digress. My personal feeling is that we allow ourselves to be deluded by our leaders into thinking that we are pursuing noble causes all over the world, when in fact we Americans are the largest and most hostile aggressors in the world!

    I cannot vote in this poll, as I feel there is not an answer suitable to my point of view. I don't like Saddam, but I'm not ready to go to war yet. However, if I can be given a good clear reason (not simply more political mumbo-jumbo), then I can support it. I just don't like the "eyes only" mentality of the current Bush administration.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    SDhunter
    Member
    Posts: 24
    (1/4/03 2:27:27 am)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "
    Hey, I don't favor war with anyone...except those trying to overthrow our way of life, liberty and the pursuits of our own happiness.
    "

    Amen, gunguy.

    Edited by: SDhunter at: 1/4/03 2:34:18 am


    SDhunter
    Member
    Posts: 25
    (1/4/03 2:36:01 am)
    Reply Re: Is a nuclear winter warm?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Good try, Sniper. The lyrics that warpig is quoting is from the song War Pig sung by Ozzy.


    JH45gun
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (1/4/03 2:54:11 am)
    Reply Re: Is a nuclear winter warm?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I do not want to see us in a war if we do not have to but as far as "let the UN take care of it" comment posted above they could not find their way out of a paper box let alone win a war If the US does not get involved the UN will not get it done. As far as I am concearned we ought to get out of the UN and let them put their headquarters in France of some other commie country. I am also damn sick of all of these anti war protesters springing up all over the place again. Jim


    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 97
    (1/4/03 3:02:48 am)
    Reply Re: War in Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--


    Loki
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 69
    (1/4/03 7:11:37 am)
    Reply Re: War in Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Since we have so far found no WMDs there, what legitimate reason could we have? Even if we found them, are we going to go after Iraq and not Pakistan or N. Korea? Is there some singular rationale other than Iraq's oil that can explain our stance here?

    I think our foreign policy has no rudder and no morality. Perhaps it's naive to expect the morality, but at least we could have some real direction to it.

    -- Loki


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 783
    (1/4/03 10:28:38 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: War in Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oh, dang it, you're right SDhunter. My mistake. Was it Ozzy who originally wrote that song? I thought it was older than that. I do know that it was redone at least once by another band. Oh well, whatever.

    I do have one comment though.... there are a lot of folks who seem to be insulted by anyone who is opposed to going to war. Last time I checked, this was America, and the people were supposed to basically run the show. If public sentiment turns out to be in opposition to war, I think Bush should seriously consider that. But there are some people who think that we should cower from our leaders and say "yes sir" to everything. I'm not a "yes" man; I have a brain of my own. This country will be run aground by people who can't think for themselves, whose only ambition in life is to agree with their leaders.

    Disagreeing with the current administration on certain issues does not make me a traitor or a liberal or any of that nonsense. It makes me an American who is interested in preserving my own freedoms and liberties, as well as keeping America from making a mistake.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    ysacres
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 528
    (1/4/03 11:20:30 am)
    Reply Re: War in Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Iraq harbors terrorists!!!!! That's all I need to know, to destroy the dicktater that runs the show.

    Aflac!
    AFLAC!!
    AFLAC
    wiseacre


    rhinoman
    Member
    Posts: 26
    (1/4/03 1:19:55 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, should've done it the first time though, I was there.
    The fight for freedom is not fought overseas in distant lands with guns, missles and bombs. It is fought here with words, pen and paper and I fear, we are loosing it.


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 707
    (1/4/03 1:42:28 pm)
    Reply Re: ysacres
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The "whitehouse" and "pentagon" in Washington, D.C., also harbor "terrorists".

    How one defines "terrorist" and "terrorism" depends on WHO is on the receiving end of the bombs and bullets.

    A baby is just as dead if it is killed by an arab, or by a greedy military-industrial-complex toady who is trying to gain control of another country's oil reserves.

    A pox on BOTH their houses.

    Mull this over:

    Just when have we (the USA) stayed at home and tended to our own business? Every time I look, I see us (the USA) over "there" in some foreign country pokin' our nose in "their" business and trying to FORCE other folks and nations to do like we (the USA) want.

    What has it gotten us? An entire world filled with angry, pi$$ed-off, foreigners who will do ANYTHING, including commit suicide, in an effort to get us (the USA) to simply stay at home and leave them alone.

    We may very well "whup" them this time, and perhaps the next, too. However, they (the arabs) will NEVER quit trying to free themselves from the oppression inflicted by us (the USA), Great Britian, and Israel. We may as well line 'em (the arabs) all up now and proceed to inflict the "final solution" on 'em (the arabs) sorta like Hitler tried to do with the jews...


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 708
    (1/4/03 1:44:59 pm)
    Reply Re:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I dunno how the "smiley face" appeared. I did not put it there.

    -- ND


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5757
    (1/4/03 2:09:38 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Re:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Are you telling us you are not happy person?
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3043
    (1/5/03 8:01:58 am)
    Reply Re: Re:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm a happy person...

    GG


    hammer4nc
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 428
    (1/5/03 10:09:02 am)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To further this discussion, might be helpful to read the summary report from Mr. Hans Blix (head of UN inspections in Iraq) himself:

    www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/...items.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    excerpts:

    Iraq continues to state in the Declaration, as it has consistently done before its submission, that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq...

    UNMOVIC at this point is neither in a position to confirm Iraq's statements, nor in possession of evidence to disprove it...

    A declaration cannot, if it stands alone, create confidence. The listing of sites or of persons, the reporting of production, importation, destruction and consumption figures and the opening of doors, giving access to inspections, is not enough to create confidence that no weapons programmes and proscribed items remain. The statements need to be supported by documentation or other evidence. Only so do they become verifiable.

    During the period 1991-1998, Iraq submitted many declarations called full, final and complete. Regrettably, much in these declarations proved inaccurate or incomplete or was unsupported or contradicted by evidence. In such cases, no confidence can arise that proscribed programmes or items have been eliminated.

    The overall impression is that not much new significant information has been provided in the part of Iraq's Declaration, which relates to proscribed weapons programmes, nor has much new supporting documentation or other evidence been submitted.

    A variant of the Al Samoud, with a larger diameter (760 mm) than the standard version (500 mm) has been declared. Because of the potential of such a missile, UNSCOM had informed Iraq that such a development should not proceed until technical discussions had resolved the question of capability. In the latest update of the semi-annual monitoring declarations, Iraq has declared that in 13 flight tests of the Al Samoud the missile has exceeded the permitted range. The greatest range achieved was 183 kilometres.

    The use of components from the imported surface-to-air missile, which I have just mentioned, was also the subject of the letters of March 1994 and November 1997 in which the Executive Chairman of UNSCOM stated that the activity was not permitted. Iraq disputed the UNSCOM view that the activity was in violation of its obligations. From its current Declaration, it appears that Iraq has, in fact, proceeded with the conversion in recent years. The whole issue will now need to be considered.

    While in most cases issues are outstanding because there is a lack of supporting evidence, in a few cases, there is information in our possession that would appear to contradict Iraq's account. At this point, I will only mention that there are indications suggesting that Iraq's account of its production and unilateral destruction of anthrax during the period between 1988 and 1991, may not be accurate. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    There's more to read here, if anyone's interested.

    I'll make this assertion: It not difficult for Sadaam to hide his WMD programs, given that he's had years to conceal them. The "inspection" procedure, as presently implemented, will never yield definitive "proof" of "no activity".

    A question for the "no action" advocates: Tell me why you're so quick to accept Sadaam's denials of WMD activity, given his proven lies in the past, and (partially uncovered) lies in the current report. Geez...next y'all will be trying to convince me that Pamela Anderson is teaching Sunday School (hehe)!!!


    inplanotx
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 104
    (1/5/03 10:52:46 am)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, I think I'll just jump in here with my opinion. I think Hammer4nc hit the nail on the head a while back. I believe that there is action going on to help the Iraqi people if they overthrow Saddam.

    If you remember back to the Persian Gulf War, we told the Kurds that we would back them if they overthrew Saddam. What did we do when they tried? Nothing, comes to mind.

    Now here we are again going after what should have been finished a decade or so ago. I really believe that we are trying to show the people of Iraq that we mean business this time. I am sure that the Northern and Southern no fly zone inhabitants are coming back into view that we will not let Saddam gain a foothold in their territories. I also believe that this has taken all this time due to what we did after the Gulf War. It takes time to heal wounds and maybe, after speaking to representative of the Kurds out of Iraq (I believe the meetings were held in Europe), that our position has changed dramatically after 9/11. They need assurances that we will not go home again without supporting them.

    With our rhetoric and military buildup in the area, I think we may be showing these people that if they start the revolution, we will be waiting in the wings to provide support IF NECESSARY! I just saw a blurb on the news this morning, and they showed a B2 bomber, saying that we are dropping leaflets with frequencies on which we are broadcasting news of what is happening. Could this be more assurance to the Iraqi people that we are there and they should start? I hope so.

    Anyway, I belive that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than what our media has knowledge of in this case. I am also in favor of helping the Kurds or any Iraqi who wants help to overthrow this madman in power. I just think that this is more in support of the people of Iraq to help themselves, than the way it looks. It has to look real to make people believe it and what is more, we need to stand behind them if they need it. So, the buildup looks like we are serious, the rhetoric looks like we are serious, the leaflets are telling them to show them we are serious, now they need to defend their own country and take it back.
    This is just my own humble opinion, so those jumping back on me have to understand that I am not for war, but I will wave the flags and swords to those who need it and back them if necessary. Hopefully we can do this and move on.

    Rick
    Improvise...Adapt...Overcome


    IShootBack
    Member
    Posts: 26
    (1/5/03 5:33:06 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Taking out SH is just the begining. We need to:

    Build 7-11's on every other corner
    Build Walmart and Home Depots in every town
    Build NASACR tracks
    Open Skate Board parks
    Give them cable TV with HBO, Showtime, and porn channels
    Indoor plumbing for everyone
    Send every women over the age of 14 lifetime subscriptions to Cosmo
    Send every man over 16 lifetime Playboy or Penthouse subscriptions
    Give them radio stations that broadcast rock-n-roll and country music
    Add in Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh, and The G man Gordon Liddy.
    Open a Harley Davidson dealership in every town
    Give 'em McDonalds and Pizza Hut

    You would see them change in a very short time.

    Guns cause crime, like spoons made Rosie fat


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 786
    (1/6/03 8:18:35 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oh, man.... the stuff you mentioned are probably the exact reasons they hate America. And even I have to admit that our "decadent" lifestyle is kinda sick. I'm all for freedom and opportunity and economic stability, but I don't know why we insist on turning every nation into little versions of America.

    I would much rather see a nation like Iraq start off fresh, and build their own economy in their own way. Because if they follow our example, they'll all turn into yuppie SUV-driving soccer moms.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    J Miller 45
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (1/7/03 7:08:50 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    IShootBack,

    If we did all the things you mentioned, we might as well go the last step and annex Iraq. Make it the 51st State.

    At least then we would have a ligitamate reason to be there.

    Oh, do I favor war with Iraq? NO.
    I cannot support the Bush administration this time. Many other posters have said everything I feel. We the U.S. are trying to be the worlds big bully. We can't keep it up.

    ***If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride."***


    ImMrBill
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (1/7/03 9:58:57 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This police action won't even be interesting, our military might and technology against Iraq doesn't even present a semblance of fair odds. Now wouldn't it be surprising if Iraq did something surprising like our colonies did with/to UK?

    Wouldn't it be embarrassing to win this conflict only to discover that they really don't have any WMDs? That they only couldn't prove they didn't have any? How could you prove you don't have a bank account if you really didn't have one?

    If they do have WMD I suspect they've been stored in Syria for safe keeping. UN inspectors aren’t looking there.

    If we really do have proof of something, to disclose it would disclose the source of information too. We all know what would happen to the source then. If it's our super spy satellites, I wonder if they've looked across the border into Syria?

    My personal feeling is Sadam was only trying to take back what was originally Iraqs to begin with, Kuwait. We know who created Kuwait, our friend and ally.

    Although I do believe Sadam has lost some of his marbles I don't think it justifies war, by us anyway. We should use our front line allies since we've provided them with our military equipment. Let them do the dirty work since they've got more at risk to lose. Then how would Sadam become the martyr he wants to become by standing up to us and the UN, which he's done so far.

    I sincerely think this is about oil and to fix an embarrassing situation left by G.B. Sr, President. Jr, President can kill two birds with one police action. And for our next act, look out, it's President Mrs. H Rodham-Clinton.

    Anyone know when we're going to ad the 51st star to the flag for the state of Israel? I'm ducking into my fox hole now.

    By the by, I've already flushed out one gov't intelligence monitor from another sight on gun control. He was flushing me out as either truly red blooded or something else. We mutually agreed that I'm red blooded, but cynical, and one that exercises the right of free speech, while I still can.


    JH45gun
    Member
    Posts: 22
    (1/8/03 2:58:00 am)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As much as I do not want to see us in a war It is going to happen no matter what we say and do. Trust me I am a hawk more than I am a Dove and Some times you just have to fight more than you have to back away!! As much as I hate to see this happen it is an age old thing when times get tough wars put the country back on track. A war will put our country back to work no matter what you think that is the way it has happened in that past and will again. The Peacenicks will disgaree with me and that is their right but I am saying War will put this country back to work and it may be at the expense of our young people fighting but that is the price of war as it has been in the past and still will be. It may be a sad thing and maybe our technical war will save lives and I hope so I guess we see what happens. Jim


    308bolt
    Member
    Posts: 45
    (1/8/03 10:51:56 am)
    Reply Re: MrBill, MrBIll !
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was wondering when the Star of David was going to rise in this thread.
    Actually I was wondering why it hadn't come up earlier.

    As You guys are all making me paranoid with all the Big Brother stuff
    I've decided to write all my replies with disappearing pixels.
    So read quic...............


    Usafirst
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (1/8/03 1:03:15 pm)
    Reply
    Re: MrBill, MrBIll !
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Amazing how so many are willing to send their young people to distant lands at the behest of the rich and powerful to fight for 'Democracy"..and maybe dieing for that terrible disease...

    Yet if your talk about freedom here in America..maybe fighting for it..you get blasted out of the saddle...


    Shizamus
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 53
    (1/9/03 2:19:29 am)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No i do not favor going to war with Iraq !

    How did our oil get under Sadam's sandbox ?

    www.infowars.com and www.prisonplanet.com


    rhinoman
    Member
    Posts: 30
    (1/9/03 11:01:10 am)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The thing is you can't go around making threats and doing nothing. We (or is it [they] when I refer to the government?) cannot sat we are going to do this or that and do nothing. What do you think happened to all the commanders who surrendered during our first go around with Iraq? If we don't go than we have to take a whole different approach to things. Bush: "We are not going to go to war with Iraq. We are lifting all sanctions of all countries/dictators/governments that we don't approve of. This is not a sign of support for these axis of evil, let me make that clear! We are pulling our troops out of Europe and placing them on our borders. No matter what happens to the rest of the world, America will remain free! Also, rhinoman, (he winks now) all infringements on the second amendment will immediately cease. I believe these action will show my commitment to freedom!"
    We cannot continue on our present course of going around destabilizing other countries than pulling out leaving them victims of the next SOB who comes along. Look what's happening in Afghanistan. What of our first go around with Saddam. We screwed those people. The Kuwaiti people are now better or worse than the Iraqi people. You want to talk about a backward country, Saudi Arabia is more repressive than either of the aforementioned countries. Anyone that has ever been to the middle east can verify this! Oh, and by the way, can anyone say Hydrogen Fuel! Now that's freedom.
    The fight for freedom is not fought overseas in distant lands with guns, missles and bombs. It is fought here with words, pen and paper and I fear, we are loosing it.


    ImMrBill
    Member
    Posts: 9
    (1/9/03 3:39:15 pm)
    Reply Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'll vote for a presidential candidate that makes campaign speeches like that. Please note I mean 'vote for' and not 'voting against the others.'
    Doesn't the Libertarian party speak something like that?


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 826
    (1/9/03 4:17:01 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: Do you favor a 'war' with Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm seriously considering going Libertarian from here on out....
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    Striker14376
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (1/9/03 7:55:08 pm)
    Reply
    Re: War in Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is an opinion of an 18 year old that is well-rehearsed in current events of the world. I do not agree with us going to Iraq...yet. Today, I think Blix was saying that the results were inconclusive and they need more time and cooperation. We all know that Saddam gassed his own citizens and I think I heard he gassed some Iranians also(separate incident). If he is suppoting terrorism, then sure, we need to go in there and do whatever possible to rid that nation of harboring future terrorists. I think we also need to have our eye on North Korea also. They have a million man army, and our troops are not too far from them. There are so many commitments(troop-wise) that we have around the world that we can't possibly fight on 2 fronts like we did WWII. For Saddam, there is no reason to negotiate with him. I do not agree with what Bush is doing, but if my unit gets called there in the future, I sure as hell would do my job. Some things we just have to pull out of, and that might solve some of our problems.

    Edited by: Striker14376 at: 1/9/03 7:58:25 pm


    tyfla99
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/13/03 9:02:53 pm)
    Reply
    Re: War in Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I didn't vote but I gotta comment. The highlight of my day is the "Opinions" section of the local paper. Pro and Con show the strength of our country and why we watch each others back. I believe we gotta facilitate the removal of Iraq's leadership. No one has the ability to do it but us. It's forming up like the gunfight at the O.K. Corral. Israel on our left and the Brits on our right. I know we should be following the lead of the UN. Historically they were able to stop the attacking..um..you know the guys...What about recently when they prevented the deaths of.....well they demanded mass graves dug up for a proper body count. Then there are the brave Saudis. Without their financing and personnel we would have missed this opportunity to bond as a nation. They were even so kind as to dictate how we act as a people while we were standing in harms way. There was a British commander who best described our brothers in arms. I'm paraphrasing here " If I see one more Saudis unit retreating from the front line I will fire on them". They had to relieve the poor chap. And the French....love the French. Without that Nazi boot on your neck you can loudly denounce us and deny your air space. Et Tu Germany? I seemed to have wandered a bit but here are my reasons why:
    1. Prior to the Gulf war a shipment of high speed capacitors was intercepted. Iraqi secret police set it up with blind companies. These items have a single use: high speed triggers for nuclear weapons. Defecting scientist have confirmed info on his programs.
    2. Chemical weapons were on line for use in the Gulf War. He had already used them on his neighbors so were expected.
    3. The whole deal about the inspectors. Sure acted like someone with something big to hide. Thank God the U.N. was there to......pack up and go home. Nanny boo-boo. It was close, someone mentioned something about making this mad man comply. Demands were almost made.
    4. This is the biggie. He fires at our aircraft in the no fly zone. Clinton gave him eight years of, one of these dayyyysss...Every missile is a act of war! We have shown superhuman restraint. Enough.
    And something else, it's a tender spot. Bush1 did not fail in the Gulf War. It was obvious we were storming to Baghdad. Thats when our camel mobile buddies started jumping up and down crying "Enough, enough. If you go North one more click the coalition will dissolve and Satan will stand alone in the desert. Allah be Praised. And so to keep the political pot from bubbling over we came home. Make no mistake, we kicked a lot of ass and shut a lot of mouths. We got the best, we are the best and we comin to yo house.
    I believe when Saddam is launch capable we will know. I am invested. My daughter's unit is packing, my son is chomping at the bit to get in the Corps. We are a military family. Oorah.

    Edited by: tyfla99 at: 1/14/03 6:46:57 am


    rhinoman
    Member
    Posts: 37
    (1/14/03 1:40:07 am)
    Reply Re: War in Iraq?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Winter has me snowbound with cabin fever. My head has been spinning lately. Heres something I thought about: I have a right to bear arms. That right is absolute, it cannot be infringed upon. My justifications for this right are the same arguments Sadam (I do wish we'd a killed him the first time) could use. I must add here that something is very wrong over there and there is much hate. Save the Jews and let the Arabs finish each other off as they eventually will. Iraq is a "freer" country than Saudi Arabia even with that jacka$$ as dictator. What kind of example are we when it comes to freedom? Try making a few bucks by cutting a few friends hair without a license. Write to the IRS and tell them you won't be needing any government services so you won't be paying federal income tax anymore. Have a neighbor call in a bogus (I hope) report of you beating your kids. Live in the city? Get yourself a cow so you don't have to buy that chalk-water crap they call milk. See how free you are! Operation Enduring Freedom? How about operation Restoring Freedom?
    The fight for freedom is not fought overseas in distant lands with guns, missles and bombs. It is fought here with words, pen and paper and I fear, we are loosing it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.