The Firearms Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys,
I know there are few topics with the same question, but I consider that each gun should be discussed separately.

So, I have in front of me an Emil Kerner 12ga shotgun.
From my observations, it has following marks:
Emil Kerner - Gun maker;
Suhl - Manufacturing city;
Wittener Excelsior Stahl - Type of metal?
12 (in circle) - caliber;
U (on both barrels) - what does this mean?
W (on both barrels) - what does this mean too?
13/1 - I supposed that German gubsnhave this type of marking for production date. Am I right? Is the gun produced in January 1913?

Revolver Cylinder Muffler
Material property Carbon Metal
Gun Shotgun Trigger Air gun
Gun Trigger Shotgun
Metal
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,998 Posts
The crown over U & W are the commercial Proof marks. 12 is the gauge. 13-1 may be the date or the choke? This is not my specialty. Before you fire the gun check the chamber length to be certain it is for 2 and 3/4 inch shells and 2 and 1/2. The barrels have been reblued.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The crown over U & W are the commercial Proof marks.
Do they mean anything else except commercial marking?

13-1 may be the date or the choke?
Before you fire the gun check the chamber length to be certain it is for 2 and 3/4 inch shells and 2 and 1/2.
I never checked the length before, but my uncle and I, always were shooting 70mm cartridges.
I will measure the chamber today later and will let you know

The barrels have been reblued.
I think so, because there is no possibility to keep them alive without maintaining.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,424 Posts
Emil Kerner might have made the shotgun. Many were made in Suhl "for the trade" by someone other than the name stamped on the rib. It's definite Kerner was the retailer.

Witten Stahl is indeed the steel the barrels are made from.

The 12 in a circle is the nominal bore size. The circle means it has 65mm/2 1/2 in. chambers.

The Crown over U is a view proof. A careful, visual examination of the gun.

The Crown over W denotes that barrel is choked. The degree of choke is never reflected.

13/1 is the bore size as measured with a spud. Ordinarily the month is first then the year. I can't make out any of the proofs. Depending on when the gun was made it might or might not have a date code.

I don't believe there's any doubt the gun is pre-WWII but by how many years I can't say without clear pictures of the proofs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shootbrownelk

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Excelsior-Stahl ist a especial steel for Gussstahl-Werk Witten, now Thyssen.
12 in a circle means 12/65mm, 13/1 a the barrel bearing.
U under crown, Untersucht, examined.
W unter crown, Würgebohrung, choked.
Is N under crown oder NITRO lacks, the gun is proof for 1912.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
It should be mentioned that using 70mm (2 3/4) shells will cause excessive pressure. At worst, it could blow up, at best, it is putting undue stress on an old weapon. You can get 2 1/2, low pressure shells from rstshells.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok, I measured the bore sizes
Left 17,4mm
Right 17,4mm
What means then the 13/1?

I have to add, on both barels there is the word Nitro stamped, just near the forend.

Any thoughts?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,424 Posts
From my first post:

13/1 is the bore size as measured with a spud.

A "spud" is a rod ground to precise dimensions of which they had a wide assortment to cover every conceivable bore size. The "spud" that corresponds to "13" is the one that fit in the bore of your gun. For our purposes here it corresponds to gauge. The smaller size than 12 is no doubt due to the choke.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top