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I was at Bass Bro Shop today looking at their ammo and I opened up a box of .223 to check it out and here's what I saw. :eek::eek::eek:

Made my heart sing a bit because as a reloader we hear about how "dangerous" it is to shoot anothers' loads, but dang, it's been decades since I've set a primer sideways.
 

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Shyte is gonna happen, maybe with the high speed progressives manufacturers use shyte is more common that we might think?

I reckon even the best quality control is going to miss a goof now and then. I'd send a copy of the pic to Remington and ask for a refund.
 

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I didn't actually buy the box in question (don't have a .223). I was just trying to figure why they had that ammo priced 3 bucks a box more for it than .243 (which I do have). In all aspects the .243 uses more components but yet is cheaper. Gotta be supply/demand.
 

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Thats exactly right Gary. anything 5.56/.223 or 7.62X39 has skyrocketed in recent weeks.
 

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Not here - same price as always.
 

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Before I started reloading I was buying PMC ammo .45 230 grain fmj.Every box i bought I had atleast one ftf.Everytime it was a bad primer.I wrote the company and they said they would compensate me.They wanted me to send it to them.I got a coupon to take to the gunstore and I got a free box.
 

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Couple years back I bought a box of 30-378 Weatherby ammo. I had the chrono set up for some of my reloads, and tried the factory shell. Now my reloads with 99 grains RL-22 180 ttsx chronoed at 3280. The factory round said 35 something and had super tight bolt. I called Weatherby and they said to send it back, after checking lot number on flap, bad load from factory. I guess that doesn't occur too much, but that was my experience, first & last.
 

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I didn't actually buy the box in question (don't have a .223). I was just trying to figure why they had that ammo priced 3 bucks a box more for it than .243 (which I do have). In all aspects the .243 uses more components but yet is cheaper. Gotta be supply/demand.
Since you didn't buy it did you at least alert an employee about it?

When you say more components, do you mean larger quantities as in powder and heavier bullets?
 

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"Escapes" do happen. Prior to about 1990 ammo mfg.s relied on Mil-Std-105 (developed during WWII)for their sampling plans since it's impossible to inspect every single bullet. This entailed a contractual requirement to establish an AQL (Acceptable Quality Level) that would specify the sample size required by the buyer. Typically, this was set at 2.5% defective found during a buyers recieving inspection operation, which meant that a lot of say 100,000 would be accepted if less than 2.5% defective were found in the sample of say 50 (varies by lot size). Since adoption of the ISO9000 series of stds, the focus has turned to statistical process controls, rather than end item sampling, although sampling is still widely practiced. And in the case of destructive inspection/testing, sampling is the only option available. The difference being that the analysis of the results is fed back to upstream manufacturing processes for improvement purposes, rather than being solely used to disposition the lot. All this does not guarantee that all items are going to meet spec of course, but it's better than it used to be.

Quality control/assurance is also an overhead cost for a company, so as with any overhead, the company will attempt to reduce it as much as possible while still satisfying customer and contract requirements. It's a real financial balancing act.
 

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damn, thanks Gunny! I would rather pay a lot less and get a dud here and there as most of us would I'm sure, but it does suck to find a defective round.

$24/20 rounds, ouch!
 

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damn, thanks Gunny! I would rather pay a lot less and get a dud here and there as most of us would I'm sure, but it does suck to find a defective round.

$24/20 rounds, ouch!
You're welcome. It really sucks if you are depending on good rounds in combat, as we were in WWII and right up to present day.

Most folks don't understand that it's all about risk management, not risk elimination. And that's true about anything, but especially high volume manufacturing. Modern manufacturing tech helps a lot, but it ain't perfect.

In a previous life, I did the QA thing for a living (was Chairman of one chapter of the American Society for Quality, ASQ Certified Quality Engineer, and senior statistician for a Fortune 50 company). It's a lot more complicated than this post would indicate, and a lot of stress, including defending our procedures to our customers (govt, and others) and enforcing our requirements on our suppliers. It was a very interesting job, and I got to write the rules :). Did pay good to. :D
 

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"Most folks don't understand that it's all about risk management, not risk elimination. "

^^perfect statement. This is what I try to say anytime someone starts trying to ban guns, or make some redonkulous rule about anything concerning our safety. We as a society, cannot legislate safety into our lives, there is inherent risk with living. There are things we can do to mitigate risk but eliminating risk is impossible. But the crunchies won't stop trying to make us 100% safe, at the expense of our freedom!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Since you didn't buy it did you at least alert an employee about it?

When you say more components, do you mean larger quantities as in powder and heavier bullets?
Yessir, walked it over to the gun counter and told the guy that there was a defective round. He looked it over and stuck it behind the counter, followed with a curt "thanks". I'm not sure he recognized the problem, and frankly I didn't want to take the time to explain it to him.

As to components, you are exactly right. More lead, copper, powder, brass.
 

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In all aspects the .243 uses more components but yet is cheaper. Gotta be supply/demand.
When you say more components, do you mean larger quantities as in powder and heavier bullets?
As to components, you are exactly right. More lead, copper, powder, brass.
Supply/Demand? No, artificial inflation by the retailer(s), plain and simple. There is no actual shortage of raw materials, and transportation costs are down with fuel being down over the last few months.
These shops, retailers, and suppliers are screwing us due to panic buying, again, plain and simple.
They are vultures.
 

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damn, thanks Gunny! I would rather pay a lot less and get a dud here and there as most of us would I'm sure, but it does suck to find a defective round.

$24/20 rounds, ouch!
They got to be scalping!!

I bought 30-06 (wanted 243) but Dunhams didnt have any. Reg 18.99 on sale for 14.99-buy two boxes and get $5 rebate-so 12.50/box-PSPCLs just like you pictured.
 

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with as fast as 223 is flying off shelves.. maybee the big manufacturers are cutting back on qc to get production out?
I doubt it. In high volume manufacturing, QC is mostly automated. A combination of automated sampling inspection (with a couple inspectors overseeing it ), and automated in-process controls on the machinery. That said you can only push product thru so fast - dependant on raw material supply, production line capability, shipping, etc.

Besides, the most valuable thing a company has is it's reputation. No CEO would jeopardize that for the sake of a few extra dollars.
 
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