[Pier23]

Gentlefolk,

After an idiotically long time thinking I had an FN clone of a PP, apparantly I have an Hungarian clone of a PP.

I have not found a site dedicated to the FEG PA-63 or the AP9, so thought I would try here.

My FEG is chambered in 7.65, and fires well, but I get a lot of blowback thru the ejection port. I dont get bothered with it, but a friend was singed with burning powder...and it does but on quite a display with flame coming out the ejection port.

Is ths a recoil spring replacement fix or something else I need to look at?

Thx!

 

[LDBennett]

Pier23:

It is a blowback operated gun. The recoil spring is suppose to delay the extraction (powered by the gases and not the extractor) until the pressure is low enough. My take is that you might need a new recoil spring or ammo not quite so powerful. If the ammo is surplus rather than modern commercial then that might be the problem. Often times surplus ammo is loaded much hotter than modern commercial.

LDBennett

 

[Pier23]

Thank you, LD;

The ammo being used is commercial .32 ACP. The provenance of this piece is uncertain. The person who sold it to me said it was an FN clone of a PP, based on the stamps on the receiver, so I am kinda floundering with it, working with scant knowledge, and really only my SmithWalther PPK/S as a reference.

Woud a place like Wolffs Springs have a specific recoil spring for this, or would I replace with a Walther PP recoil spring?

AND...am I correct that I am even dealing with an FEG AP9, or something else?? (see attached photos)

And finally...how did the FN markings get stamped on this guy?

Many thanks.

Don

 

[LDBennett]

Pier23:

Is the frame marked as an FEG made in Hungary and the slide is marked FN from Belgium? If so, that is weird. Some one made this gun up if that is the case.

Blowback guns are a balancing act. The force of recoil has to be absorb by the inertia of moving the slide, the force required to cock the hammer, friction, and the force to collapse the recoil spring. The balance point is reached if the slide travels all the way to the rear and just kisses the slide stop, without banging into the frame hard. If any part of the equation is changed then the equation may be un-balanced. Changing to a different slide may have upset the equation and a heavier recoil spring may be necessary.

I'd get a replacement FEG spring and test its force against the spring you now have. If the FEG spring is stronger then I'd try it in the gun. If not I'd contact Wolff to see if they can give you a stronger spring than the stock FEG spring.

If all of the gun is FN then I'd search out a FN replacement spring.

I have an FEG PA-63 in 9mm MAK. It is not a fun gun to shoot. It gives me hammer bite if I use a standard high hold and my hands are best described as small for my size. The trigger was terrible and I had to do a trigger job on it. Today I'd pass on buying one as well as the Walther PPK.

LDBennett

 

[mogunner]

I have an Eibar Echasa GZ, a Spanish manufactured copy of the Walther, looks pretty much identical for the most part, also chambered in .32. I had the same problem, it was the recoil spring. I bought one from Numrich and compared it, the "new" one was almost 1/2" longer than the old one, not sure if the one in it had been replaced by a PO or just compressed. I was getting a carbon coating over the magazine and would often notice a spark as the slide cycled as it was fired, as if the slide was opening too soon.

 

[Mosin_Nagant_Fan]

I had one for the South African Police in .380 and it only stove-piped, once, with Remington ammo. I'd think, in your case, that it needs a newer/better spring.

 

[RJay]

That is one strange little gun, it is an FEG, and why the counterfeit slide, don't know, I've never seen such an animal before. You can tell the slide has been refinished, FN has never manufactured a gun that that gun would fit on.

 

[Mosin_Nagant_Fan]

Did a little digging and found this. http://forums.gunboards.com/archive/index.php/t-158331.html http://www.hungariae.com/Hege66.htm

 

[RJay]

May even be the same pistol.

 

[Pier23]

Did a little digging and found this. http://forums.gunboards.com/archive/index.php/t-158331.html http://www.hungariae.com/Hege66.htm

Yup, sounds like my guy!

When I get a chance I will see if I can get some snaps of the proof markings, which mean nothing to me.

Meanwhile, I will see if I can get the replacement recoil spring.

What I _don't_ understand is why FEG would want to fraudulantly produce a weapon with the FN marks. The piece stands on its own merits...assuming proper licensing with Walther... If a direct ripoff without a license, then this becomes an intriguing piece.

 

[RJay]

That slide wasn't done by FEG, it may not even be a FEG slide, You can tell by the finish that it doesn't match. Your gun is just one of about a half dozen unauthorized copies of the Walther PP made by various different makers in various countries. There have even been several American copies as well. Again on the slide, I have no ideal of what the purpose of the counterfeit markings were for. No one could really be fooled in believing that it was a Browning /FN product, at least I don't believe so. Could be wrong.

 

[Pier23]

No one could really be fooled in believing that it was a Browning /FN product, at least I don't believe so. Could be wrong.

Well...I was..l <gggg> thought it was really neat to finally have an FN.....

So, if not an FEG, then what? ... Since I just ordered FEG springs from Wolff...

 

[RJay]

Sorry, didn't mean to put you down, my bad. It is a FEG, Springs ordered should fit with no problem. I just wonder about that slide, I wonder if that could be part of the problem. Please keep us posted so we learn also.

 

[lead]

My understanding has always been that these were FEG pistols made for FN because FEG could make them alot cheaper then FN could. Just simple outsourcing. In the 50's and 60's, the 32cal was still a popular police pistol in many parts of Europe. The FEG model name is AP7, not AP9, 7 for 7.65mm which is the same as .32. the AP9 was a .380 or 9mmshort. The FEG Hungarian police version is the PA63 which is 9x18 Makarov.
They are stout, well made pistols. If you told Wolff that you need the spring for the .32 version, I'm sure they'll get you the right spring. It may even be the same spring for the AP7 or AP9. I've owned one, found it to be reliable and accurate.
If you have a good gunsmith nearby, it might be worth letting him check it out. These guns may be 40-50 years old. A good cleaning, and detailed inspection can't hurt. Put in the new springs, have him check the hammer spring, trigger spring, and the spring in the magazine. It'll be like having a new gun. Good luck.

BTW, AP stands for "Automatic Pistol" but in Hungarian, which I can't speak anyway.

 

[RJay]

Sorry, I have never read, seen nor heard that FN made the FEG pistol in any size, fashion or form. FN already has a full plate, why would they sub contract to make a cheap copy of a cheap gun. The gun did not sell that well when new, why would FEG need a subcontractor. If you can cite any reference to your information I will be glad to back track.

 

[Pier23]

I am away from the pistol now, but will send addtl pix of the prof marks.
Thanks, all...this is VERY helpful!

 

[lead]

I didn't mean that FN made the pistol, I meant FEG made the pistol and stamped FN on it. Look on the auction pages, there's also FEG made Hi Powers with the Mauser name and Luger name. They made stuff for others that were reasonably priced.
It's been years since I read some of the reviews about them and don't remember where to look now. Since I have never read about FN suing over these guns I always assumed they authorized this copy.
To the OP, every FEG I've ever owned has been a reliable pistol. I hope your new springs fix your problem and you enjoy your pistol.

 

[RJay]

I didn't mean that FN made the pistol, I meant FEG made the pistol and stamped FN on it. Look on the auction pages, there's also FEG made Hi Powers with the Mauser name and Luger name. They made stuff for others that were reasonably priced.
It's been years since I read some of the reviews about them and don't remember where to look now. Since I have never read about FN suing over these guns I always assumed they authorized this copy.
To the OP, every FEG I've ever owned has been a reliable pistol. I hope your new springs fix your problem and you enjoy your pistol.

I understand better of what you are posting, however the fact remains that FN/Browning has never marketed a Walther PP/PPK type of pistol, made by them or others. They did take over the assets of Astra and gave a FN brand on one of their revolvers ( The Barracuda ) but other than that, no Walther look-a-likes. Of course I could be wrong and if anyone has references otherwise I will be glad to reconsider my opinion and have a dish of crow

 

[Boris]

Pier23:

It is a blowback operated gun. The recoil spring is suppose to delay the extraction (powered by the gases and not the extractor) until the pressure is low enough. My take is that you might need a new recoil spring or ammo not quite so powerful. If the ammo is surplus rather than modern commercial then that might be the problem. Often times surplus ammo is loaded much hotter than modern commercial.

LDBennett

Fiocchi loads their 7.65Br to CIP standards. SAAMI only allows it to be loaded to 21000 psi. CIP is loaded to 26000 psi. Same thing for S&B. I notice a huge difference between UMC and the European ammo in my P32. That gun shoots the real ammo better than the weak sauce domestic ammo makers put to market.

 

[Pier23]

Thank you, LD;

The ammo being used is commercial .32 ACP. The provenance of this piece is uncertain. The person who sold it to me said it was an FN clone of a PP, based on the stamps on the receiver, so I am kinda floundering with it, working with scant knowledge, and really only my SmithWalther PPK/S as a reference.

Woud a place like Wolffs Springs have a specific recoil spring for this, or would I replace with a Walther PP recoil spring?

AND...am I correct that I am even dealing with an FEG AP9, or something else?? (see attached photos)

And finally...how did the FN markings get stamped on this guy?

Many thanks.

Don

OK, here are the rest of the stamps on my mystery presumable FEG.

On the left side, by the mag release, appears to be an M with a circle around it. The other symbol appears to be a capital I inside a mark that resembles a bullet outline.

The other shot is from the butt of the pistol to the rear of the magazine. Clearly meaning something to someone, but means nothing to me.

The etch states:

ARM '70S LW F/ Hungary

The "F/ Hungary" I will assume is "from Hungary" but the "ARM '70S LW" is meaningless to me.

Any thoughts, comments appreciated.

Thx!!