FLECHETTES?

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by warpig, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. warpig

    warpig Guest

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 1944
    (8/8/01 7:20:01 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del All
    ezSupporter
    FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Anyone ever try these in a shotgun? If so what
    kind of range is to be expected?
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    MO JENKINS
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 83
    (8/8/01 8:09:09 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry, got no idea Tac. But I bet LTS or Polish has the scoop on that one.

    the real fredneck
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 226
    (8/8/01 8:37:59 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TAC
    you talkin those that sell for $12.95+/3 or some roll your owns?

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 1950
    (8/8/01 8:59:06 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah Fred, the ones that shoot the nails and are
    around the price you mentioned, I have had a few
    packs of them put away for years but never tried
    them yet and was wondering what to expect.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1772
    (8/8/01 9:03:45 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    They have good range depending on the style, but have very little effect (PF) even at close range. Look cool, sound cool, cool and scarey.....beyond that...nothing. If you are rolling your own special combat loads, the one prefered in the jungles and came from Mylasia(sp?) were buckshot loaded over #4`s or #6`s....the smaller shot taking up the voids between the bigger shot, reasoning being; some of the small shot might fine the target and believing to be hit, the said victim would drop thinking he was hit, giving some much needed seconds for the others to get down to survive the ambush. Shotgunners were points in island jungle hoping, though not heard of much....I have first hand account of these loads as my Father saw them used in New Ginnea, where he was a Capt. and pilot for the USAF in WWII and flew one mean ass plane....beat the hell out of the shipping lanes and small island strips......LTS
    "am not" R2

    MO JENKINS
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 84
    (8/8/01 9:42:14 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Does anybody know where I can get some of these fancy "dooooplex" loads, or is it strictly a "roll yur own" proposition? Dagnabit Polish, where are you? You're always talkin' about these kinds a' things!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 1952
    (8/8/01 10:06:29 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    MO,

    You can get them from Shomer-Tec 1-360-733-6214.

    They sell all of their overun that they make for the
    Govt.

    I had a friend that was Recon in Nam who said that
    these rounds would pin a man to a tree.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    IceNineIceNine
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (8/8/01 10:31:54 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey Mo, Remington makes Duplex shells -- I just bought some 12 Gauge 2x4 last fall.

    --edit--
    oops, the Remington 2x4 were 3" mags with an olive drab hull and black base that I bought back in the early '90's. What I got last fall were Remington 4x6 3" mags with a bright green hull and brass base called "Premier Duplex Magnum Shotshells".

    Edited by: IceNineIceNine at: 8/8/01 11:38:12 pm

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1423
    (8/8/01 10:36:34 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yeah, if fired from a 106mm RCL or a rocket from a Cobra, at short range, flechettes did the job. BUT only because of the payload size and velocity. ANY multiple projectile round would have done as much or better.

    From a shotgun or a SPIW they were a bust.

    Too light for serious "ejecta," did NOT fly as designed, like a dart, but hit butt first, sideways, any way but as designed. At extremely close range they are impressive, but then so is an ounce of #9s.

    The "Beehive" rounds from the RCLs were impressive, BUT so were cannister rounds from the 37mm AT at the Mantanikau in War II against the first Japanese Banzai charge...with pellets.

    I would hazard the guess that any 'Nam vet claiming to see someone "pinned to a tree" by flechettes saw as much combat as those that claimed they saw a M16 "saw a tree in half" or "hit a VC in the elbow and the round exited the back of his head."

    The SPIW concept depended on flechettes to provide both point and area fire.

    Needless to say, the SPIW concept, as defined in the 70s and 80s, is dead. 'Nuff said...

    Save your money, and try the duplex/Malaysia loads.

    Just remember to load the heavier pellets or balls on top of the lighter ones. They retain energy longer and thus fly out in front of the pattern of smaller shot behind. Load the other way and they will blow holes in the pattern of lighter shot.

    Buffered buck patterns better at range(Less deformity) than unbuffered, smaller shot (#8s or less" can act as a buffer, so another option is buffering (mix) the buck with small shot.

    If you don't hit with buck at 30-40 yds, you MAY still blind or incapacitate with the birdshot...

    I STILL say the best round at 100 yds or less is a "Triplex" 7/8 oz. slug or roundball, on top of 6 pellets of O buck, buffered with #8 birdshot.

    You should be able to keep the aimed slug/ball on a silhouette out to 100, a decent pattern of aimed buck/ball out to 50, a decent "area" shot out to 30-40. with a smatterring of bird to "keep them busy" if you miss completely.

    And at 10 yards, the 3" "Glob" would be devastating.


    Eibar Pimp. "Pssst! 'Ay Meester..."

    MO JENKINS
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 88
    (8/9/01 7:57:17 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thanks Polish,
    It's enough to make me want to start reloading shotgun shells! That's got to be a DEVASTATING load!

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 1974
    (8/9/01 4:16:35 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Polish,

    The rounds I'm speaking of were used in Nam to
    flush snipers out of trees and they were effective
    as they did not deflect, can't speak for the copies
    out there on the market now however, I tried one
    round of the military stuff today at 25yds. and what
    did hit did go in as it should have.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1426
    (8/9/01 9:39:40 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tac, are you sure they were flechette rounds?

    My cousin that flew Cobras in Nam told me a story one time of the most devastating AP rockets he carried had "nails" for a payload, he said they exploded somehow before impact so the nails would spread just before impact, but he said the grunts were always breaking into the warheads and stealing them to build hootches, and they would replace them with bottlecaps, pebbles, and other crap. He said it was not uncommon to make a perfect run on some VC or NVA, let go some rockets, and they would go off with a "poof," and the targets wouldn't drop like they were supposed to, so you never knew what was in them. When a real one was used they dropped like a scythe hit them he said.

    He said when he was CO of his squadron last tour, he had to keep a guard on the rockets just to keep the grunts away.

    I always wondered if the "nails" he was talking about were actually flechettes.

    I have never fired any, just read just about all the research available on them years ago, I actually predicted SPIW and flechettes would be the main infantry weapon by the 90s in a paper I did in college. After I turned it in is when I found all the testing that showed they sucked. Oops.

    Screwed the pooch on THAT prediction.
    Eibar Pimp. "Pssst! 'Ay Meester..."

    Xracer
    Moderator
    Posts: 760
    (8/10/01 8:33:50 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, flechettes aren't anything new. They've been used as "cannister" loads since the cannon was invented. They even used to drop them over the German trenches during WWI.

    The ones I've seen were an inch or two long, made of steel, and looked like a miniature bomb (complete with fins), and must've weighed 3-400 gr. They'd load several buckets of 'em in the back seat of a two seat bomber or scout, climb to 2 or 3 thousand feet and dump 'em over the side over the trenches......supposedly, they'd penetrate thru a steel helmet.

    I've still got a few of them somewhere.....bought 'em at a surplus store to use on model planes I built as a teenager.

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 1988
    (8/10/01 11:31:56 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del
    ezSupporter
    Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yep,

    Guys they are nails with fins instead of heads, the
    one I used had 22 "Darts" nails in it.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1429
    (8/12/01 9:25:39 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: FLECHETTES?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    X, the flechettes used in the shotgun rounds were light (Like 10 grains each) razor sharp darts, for the SPIW, they even dicussed an adhustable choke like system so the shooter could keep them together for point fire out past 100, or cause them to spread for area fire at close range.

    It didn't work either...

    I'm aware of the WWI flechettes, thats where the name came from I think. I saw a picture of an armored Rumpler ground attack plane one time, the gunner had a leather saddle like around the fuselage holding stick grenades, and boxes of the heavy flechettes, plus he had two twenty pound bombs tied together by a rope which draped across his cockpit, they hung down either side, I guess he just cut the rope to drop them at the same time.

    Took some balls to fly with all that explosive wrapped around a simple sheetmetal gas tank, didn't it?
    Eibar Pimp. "Pssst! 'Ay Meester..."