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German 38 cal derringer identification help please

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Jon Hermann, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. Jon Hermann

    Jon Hermann New Member

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    I am trying to idetify an older 38 cal. over/under derringer, single trigger gun. On top of the barrel is stamped "Mississippi Derringer", On the left side is Casl 38 Special" and on the right side is "Made in Germany". Given to a friend by her grandfather who served in WW1. Nust be a pre '68 gun for importation laws. Ther is a stamp on the barrel in two location and the receiver on one location. Looking for any thoughts folks might have. Thank you in advance. Jon Questions please call 651-485-8079.

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  2. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The friend's grandfather may have served in WWI (sure it was not WWII?), but that pistol was not a military weapon or a battle capture. It was made in 1961, before the 1968 law, and is probably a commercial import based on the English "Made in Germany" marking.

    Those guns were not bad but often one or the other barrel did not fire reliably. If both barrels fire, it would make a defense gun within its two shot parameter, but use only standard .38 Special ammo, not that designated as +P or +P+.

    Jim
     

  3. Jon Hermann

    Jon Hermann New Member

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    Jim,
    Thank you for the response. Are you getting the year of manufacture from the number by the stamping? Do you know thet manufacturer or how to determine it? Thinking it might be a Rohm but everything I read abut Rohm says their model # ie" RG17 is stamped on the gun. Trying to determine manufacturer and value for a friend. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  4. Jon Hermann

    Jon Hermann New Member

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    Further research on the internet of West German (Ulm) proof markings shows the "Phoenix" over "N" is the proof mark used since 1952 for "difinitive nitro proof for all guns". As I understand that indicates the pressures for smokeless powder can be used in this gun. Still looking for what the "XCCC" means. Maybe Jim has the production date of 1961 correct. Thought maybe roman numerals but that doesn't make sense as it would indicate 1300. Still can't find the manufacturer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
  5. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Bill Goforth research showed that a German firm of Keschie was responsible for a large number of these derringers. If there is a small circle K, that would identify Keschie. Other German firms that exported these type firearms in the late 50's and 60's were Rohm. Wriehrauch, Schmidt and very likely even more.
     
  6. Jon Hermann

    Jon Hermann New Member

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    RJay, Thanks for the info. Unfortunately the only markings I can find anywhere on the gun are posted. Sure would like to figure out who made this thing. Jon
     
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Quite honestly, the gun is not a collector's item and the manufacturer is not that important in evaluating it or in determining if it is reliable enough to use for defense. There were tens of thousands of those guns imported and sold, and dealers just entered "German derringer" in their books. Often neither the dealer nor the wholesaler knew the manufacturer.

    The "61" was part of the proof mark and was the date it was proven. The other mark looks like "xccc", but it is actually an antler, the symbol of the Ulm, Germany, proof house.

    Jim
     
  8. Jon Hermann

    Jon Hermann New Member

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    Well, I guess that answers my question, Now as I look at the second proof mark the antler makes sense. I have no interest in shooting the gun, as I said I am just "disposing" of it for a friend and want to make sure I don't sell something of value for her by mistake. Looks like this is one of the generics and I will take what I can get. Makes a person wonder how a German factory would come up with the term "Mississippi Derringer" unless the importer named it and just had it stamped on the gun for marketing purposes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011