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Same with Tennessee Firpo. A Castle State. (Stand your ground.)

I own a model 97' Mr Honda, and a couple more that will Slam Fire. 馃憤

None of them need to be racked in order to go to work. If it is outside the safe, it is ready to go. 馃馃槈
 

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I grew up with an Ithaca pump and in later years wound up with a couple of Wingmaster 870s. I dislike the trigger guard safety they have. I'd much prefer the safety of a Mossberg but back when I was buying them, I considered the Mossberg somewhat of an inexpensive rattle trap even though they have proven themselves to be good shotguns.

When inside the compound in VN, my rifle was always kept with a loaded magazine but with the chamber empty, the bolt open and the safety off. My 870 that sits loaded outside of the safe also has a full magazine, one in the chamber but with the bolt half open.

I agree with the stealth and quiet part but around here most break-ins are by local kids though you never really know when that totally evil person may be what you are dealing with. That bolt can close just as quickly and easily as a safety can come off, just like releasing the bolt on an auto.

Actually, when you think about it, our revolvers and some autos which have no safety are ready to go with the pull of the trigger. I suppose the home shotgun could be also but we have been trained to engage a safety. Will everyone remember it's on when needed if surprised? Many recommend pistols without safeties for that very reason. We are all different. Some are used to hunting with a safety and it is natural to remove just as it becomes natural with a 1911. Training and preparation are so very important.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I grew up with an Ithaca pump and in later years wound up with a couple of Wingmaster 870s. I dislike the trigger guard safety they have. I'd much prefer the safety of a Mossberg but back when I was buying them, I considered the Mossberg somewhat of an inexpensive rattle trap even though they have proven themselves to be good shotguns.

When inside the compound in VN, my rifle was always kept with a loaded magazine but with the chamber empty, the bolt open and the safety off. My 870 that sits loaded outside of the safe also has a full magazine, one in the chamber but with the bolt half open.

I agree with the stealth and quiet part but around here most break-ins are by local kids though you never really know when that totally evil person may be what you are dealing with. That bolt can close just as quickly and easily as a safety can come off, just like releasing the bolt on an auto.

Actually, when you think about it, our revolvers and some autos which have no safety are ready to go with the pull of the trigger. I suppose the home shotgun could be also but we have been trained to engage a safety. Will everyone remember it's on when needed if surprised? Many recommend pistols without safeties for that very reason. We are all different. Some are used to hunting with a safety and it is natural to remove just as it becomes natural with a 1911. Training and preparation are so very important.
I can see the half-closed bolt more so than an empty chamber. You might still add a little awkwardness if you pick it up wrong though. Dumping a round by accident instead of closing the bolt as intended just adds complexity, but that's just my opinion.
 

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A long gun, rifle or shotgun, that is not in my hand will have magazine full, chamber MT, safety off. I believe it鈥檚 far easier to grab and rack a round in the chamber than fumble about for a small safety with oven mitts hands brought on by high stress while shaking the sleep out of my head. We each have our views and protocols. What is more important than exactly what the details are is practicing enough to commit those movements to muscle memory.
But for the record my way is more correct鈥︹ ;) 馃槀
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I may just start leaving a cowbell on the night stand since the consensus is that metal racket scares 'em off. What about metal music? Hmm...

 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Sorry y'all... I just have a hard time understanding adding complexity. My whole job is literally to reduce human error opportunity by simplifying systems and replacing steps with automation where possible. The idea of adding another action totally defies my whole world because no matter how simple you make something, someone will find a way to screw it up. :ROFLMAO:
 

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I may just start leaving a cowbell on the night stand since the consensus is that metal racket scares 'em off. What about metal music? Hmm...

So those that do not 100% agree with you are crazy鈥. gotcha. Here I was under the mistaken impression we were having an exchange of ideas and why we do things the way we do. Making scary noises in the dark is NOT why many/most leave their shotgun chamber MT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
So those that do not 100% agree with you are crazy鈥. gotcha. Here I was under the mistaken impression we were having an exchange of ideas and why we do things the way we do. Making scary noises in the dark is NOT why many/most leave their shotgun chamber MT.
I didn't say anything about it being crazy. Also, I wasn't exactly pointing out your post. There are many replies here that talk about the sound. The original person in the topic of the post actually made the sound of racking the shotgun when describing what he would do.

My main issue is added complexity. If you function better with added complexity, then go for it. 馃榾

EDIT: There should also be no preconceived notions about the seriousness of a post that starts with a title containing Rambo. 馃ぃ
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Racking a pump shotgun in the vertical position can lead to jams so I hope he thinks that he has to pickup the shotgun before trying to chamber a round.
That was what I was going for in my comments about the half open bolt. If you accidentally push down on the forend, you can end up with a situation to clean up before you're effectively defending yourself.
 

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While at the range I had mine pointed up & racked it kinda slow. The round that was supposed to go in the chamber hit my boot.
That was what I was going for in my comments about the half open bolt. If you accidentally push down on the forend, you can end up with a situation to clean up before you're effectively defending yourself.
 

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One thing I've noticed is that when a pump shotgun is leaning in a corner or up against a dresser and a wall, that when you go to pick it up, you usually pick it up by the pump's forearm which then closes the half open bolt and chambers the round laying against the bolt as the weight of the shotgun helps you. It would be awkward to bend down and grab it any other way except maybe by the barrel. Of coarse I'm not arguing that is the safest or simplest way. Loaded and safety on is probably the quickest. Chamber empty is probably the safest. I just hate to sacrifice a round and I really don't like the cross bolt safeties.
 

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i know of at least ONE time in which racking the slide of a pump-shotgun sent one of two would-be burglars crashing through a bay window. The other one was closer to the back door and availed himself of that exit. The only other thing I've ever heard that was as unsettling as hearing someone "not on my team" rack a pump-shotgun near me was when an adult western diamondback "sounded-off", maybe a yard from my feet. My feet did not stay that close for any length of time.
In any case, it'd be NICE if "scary sounds" would "repel boarders" with any predictability, but that's to be hoped for and NEVER expected. I can SORTA see where the "Chair-borne" commando in Academy was going with the "safety-off, but empty chamber" combination. If the chamber is empty, there is no need for the trigger safety. It is just a second, and unnecessary thing the user must do before firing. Having to disengage 2 safeties before firing could cause enough delay in getting a shot off that the user is shot first. With a live round in the chamber, the trigger safety absolutely must be engaged until "go time".
The question becomes "Which 'safety' can be defeated with the least trouble, in the shortest time interval?"
PERSONALLY, I find the "behind the trigger" position of the cross-bolt safety on Remington shotguns problematic to disengage in a hurry, and I am RIGHT-handed. For the one man in six who is a left-handed shooter, it's worse. I prefer a sliding safety at the back of the receiver, where the thumb of EITHER shooting hand tends to rest. In the rearward position, the trigger safety is engaged. As the shotgun is brought to the shoulder, a "swipe" of the thumb sends it forward, and the piece is ready to fire.

I don't hump a shotgun on long hunts anymore, but I've trained myself to be VERY conscious of where my trigger finger is, at ALL times that the weapon's in my hand. Over the years, I've been VERY fortunate, but I don't take anything for granted.
 

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Here in Oklahoma we are a constitutional carry and stand your ground state.
I keep forgetting that Texas is now constitutional carry. I've been carrying so long that to me, carrying a gun is like having a wallet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
The Rossi Circuit Judge is a shotgun you can shoot double action.
:)
You might as well leave the chamber empty on a 12-gauge pump if you're going to limit yourself to 5 rounds anyway. Sorry, I had to. :ROFLMAO:
 

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You might as well leave the chamber empty on a 12-gauge pump if you're going to limit yourself to 5 rounds anyway. Sorry, I had to. :ROFLMAO:
No need to apologize, I'M glad you DID. I think I'd FAR rather have 4 rounds of 12 ga. ANYTHING, than 5 rounds of .410 anything. Even with Buck, the .410's a marginal fight stopper.
People who own .410/.45 Colt revolvers seem to either swear BY them or swear AT them and, though I've never shot one, I suspect I'd be in the latter category. I've NEVER read a write-up about one that was other than exculpatory about their accuracy with .45 Colt, and the "free-bore" needed to accommodate the .410s probably contributes to that. It probably does the .45 Colt projectile no favors on the way to the forcing cone.
 

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I was told, if I left my hammerless double, loaded and safety on it would in time weaken the firing pin spring, seems like it would do the same on a pump. Yeah, it's a scary noise but I would not count on that if it is at the point, you have a gun out you better be for real. The shotgun in my bedroom is an old S&W with an extended tube, I keep 5 rounds of #4 buck in it with an empty chamber. It is all a matter of situation, in my case, there is no element of surprise for anyone, the dogs have taken care of that, and the first thing I am going to grab will be a 1911 and a flashlight, or go to my office and get a rifle with a light.

Get a good K-9 security system and you won't have to worry about waking up to a bump in the night and figuring out a safety. YVMV
 

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You were told incorrectly. Urban legend. If leaving a spring under tension would cause it to fail, my 86 Chevy, which has had its suspension springs under tension for 35 years, would be sitting on the frame because the springs would have failed. But they haven't.

Springs fail by being worked. Leave them expanded - no problem. Leave them compressed - no problem. Expand and compress and expand and compress and expand and compress - that's what wears out springs.

Shotgun firing pins are designed to hit the shell primer, which stops their forward movement. If there is no shell in the chamber, the pin goes as far forward as it can, and the stop on the pin runs into the back of the recess in the receiver.

Back when I had a Stevens 311 12 gauge SxS, I would always dry fire it before I put it back on the wall, to "take the tension off the springs". Broke both firing pins doing that. Now the only time I take the tension off the spring is if I have a hammer so I can gently lower it.

Leaving the chamber empty and the magazine full, you have two choices. You can pull the trigger and dry fire the gun, and then all you have to do is pick it up and rack it. Or you can leave it cocked, and then you have to pick it up and find the little dealy on the bottom of the receiver and push it so you can rack it.

Me personally - I find it easier to push the safety. So my pump gun is fully loaded with the safety on.

A year or so ago I glanced over at the gun and wondered if the chamber was loaded. I didn't remember. I unloaded the gun. It wasn't - 4 in the tube, empty chamber. Now it is fully loaded, and there's a piece of masking tape stuck on the side of the receiver where I wrote in sharpie - LOADED CHAMBER. Now I don't have to guess when I pick it up. :)
 
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