The Firearms Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My grandfather purchased, and I have inherited, an H&R .410 model 1915. It is marked 410-44 so its an old one. The 410 shot shells I bought fit very snug in the chamber but there is no visible corrosion to narrow the bore. The snug fit begins immediately when you start to insert the shell. Is this a normal tolerance problem or am I looking at a problem?

I was planning to use an adapter and trying the shotgun out as a "209" in-line muzzle loader, but the adapter doesn't fit into the chamber more than maybe a 16th of an inch.

The shotgun is really worn so there isn't much value here but it is a family heirloom.

Thanks in advance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,342 Posts
All I know is your shotgun is made to use 2 1/2" .410 bore shells OR .44 W.C.F. /44-40 and .44 XL SHOT shells ONLY. I do believe that using any thing else may well be dangerous.

Are you using the PROPER 2 1/2" shells and not the modern 3" shells?

As for the rest, we will need lots of clear pics to see what you are doing .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,134 Posts
Unless you plan on making a muzzle loading SHOTGUN, I think you're asking for trouble.

Rifles, you may notice, have much thicker barrel walls than shotguns, either muzzle loading or cartridge.

If I was gonna try that, instead of an adapter for using shotgun primers, I'd buy some primed hulls.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fiocchi-410-25-new_primed-hull-100_bag/productinfo/0644100/

Cut two or three of 'em off with a razor knife, right at the end of the brass. Toss the tube.

That way, if I decided this was a colossal waste of time, I'd still have that bag of primed cases. If I didn't want to load them myself, I could maybe find some other reloaded who might buy them. Seems like it would be much easier to sell primed hulls than to try to sell an adapter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Definitely we are talking muzzle loading shotgun with light charges. The shotgun is at our lake house so no photos for a week or so. I was thinking that since the interference fit occurs when I start to insert the shell that this is not a 2 1/2 vs 3 inch occurrence. Also, the adapter doesn't fit at all. There wasn't some different standard chamber diameter back in the Early 1900s right?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,422 Posts
Once you get the gun in hand I'd make a chamber cast and remove all doubt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,436 Posts
You're going to have a problem loading it from the muzzle because of the choke restriction. If you're planning on using it for hunting during muzzle loader season you're going to have to weld the breech shut and add whatever priming system you want to use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,850 Posts
How would I tell if it was chambered for the .44-40? Wouldn't that make it bigger than .410?
If I remember right the .44 and the .410 shell are only .001 different in base diameter but a .410 shell is longer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,537 Posts
Wouldn't that make it bigger than .410?
You must remember that the actual diameter of a 44/40 is .429.
I'm not up on shotguns and not sure just where the .410 measurement comes from. It could be land diameter (like the British .303) but a shotgun doesn't have lands. Maybe choke diameter at the muzzle?? Or, it could be a translation of the "gauge/bore" measurement that is based on how many bore sized lead balls it takes to make up a pound. (i.e. the diameter of one of those balls)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,436 Posts
You must remember that the actual diameter of a 44/40 is .429.
I'm not up on shotguns and not sure just where the .410 measurement comes from. It could be land diameter (like the British .303) but a shotgun doesn't have lands. Maybe choke diameter at the muzzle?? Or, it could be a translation of the "gauge/bore" measurement that is based on how many bore sized lead balls it takes to make up a pound. (i.e. the diameter of one of those balls)
Modern Italian 44-40's are .429. Older ones and some of the newer ones made here are .427. Also a 44-40 is a bottleneck. I don't get how it could be chambered for both. If it's chambered for .410 the 44-40 case is going to blow the neck out to chamber dimensions which would suck for reloaders.


The bore diameter of a .44 is .4215, this is the size of the hole after it is drilled and reamed and it's what it would be in smooth bore configuration. The bore diameter of a .410 is .410.

Bore diameter has no relationship to chamber diameter other than it's typically larger than bore diameter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,579 Posts
The .410 is accurately called the .410 bore, not the .410 gauge. The nominal bore at the end of the chamber is .410". Any choke will restrict that bore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,342 Posts
The H&R .410 model 1915. That is marked 410-44 can use.
1) 410-2 1/2 shotshells .
2) 44-40 shotshells.
3) 44 XL shotshells.
4) 44 W.C.F. shotshells.
5) 13MM Spanish shotshells.
6) 15MM-? Italian shotshells. ( same junk as the Spanish, just different name)

I don't think you can use the 44-40 standard solid with out doing some harm. That is not to say some people have used them in the past in an emergency . I know my uncle shot a bear once a very long time ago. He only did it the one and only time. As for the bear, it died right there and then in the garden.
The shotgun he used was a Spanish double barrel with rabbit ears and a short 24 inch barrel . This happened during the 1930s. I remember the shotgun quite well because he always kept it hanging over the doorway until he passed away in the 1980s.

Note.
.410 bore diameters can and do vary widely, the SAAMI specifications allow from a minimum of .410 inch (10.41mm), up to plus 20thou of an inch (.430 inch/10.92mm).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,850 Posts
You must remember that the actual diameter of a 44/40 is .429.
I'm not up on shotguns and not sure just where the .410 measurement comes from. It could be land diameter (like the British .303) but a shotgun doesn't have lands. Maybe choke diameter at the muzzle?? Or, it could be a translation of the "gauge/bore" measurement that is based on how many bore sized lead balls it takes to make up a pound. (i.e. the diameter of one of those balls)
The bore diameter of a .44 is .4215, this is the size of the hole after it is drilled and reamed and it's what it would be in smooth bore configuration. The bore diameter of a .410 is .410.

Bore diameter has no relationship to chamber diameter other than it's typically larger than bore diameter.
Actually Hawg didn't say this I did, I'm not sure how the forums combined our separate posts into one post?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,579 Posts
.410 bore diameters can and do vary widely, the SAAMI specifications allow from a minimum of .410 inch (10.41mm), up to plus 20thou of an inch (.430 inch/10.92mm).
That's why I used the word "nominal" ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,436 Posts
I've always heard you could shoot .45 Colt out of a .410 but I never tried it(miracle of miracles :D).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,850 Posts
Hawg you can physically fit a .45 Colt cartridge in a .410 chamber but when that .452 bullet hits the end of the chamber at high velocity and pressure and tries to fit through a .410 hole bad things could happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
The .45 Colt/.410 is a one-way street- Like the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor you can chamber a .410 in an elongated .45 Colt chamber, but you cannot go the other way safely for the reason mentioned in Grizzley1's post. Modern .410 hulls vary a bit in diameter- have you tried chambering a different brand?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
40,163 Posts
Actually Hawg didn't say this I did, I'm not sure how the forums combined our separate posts into one post?
I was combining some posts and did it by mistake last night and could not figure out how to get them back the way they should have been! Sorry!!
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top