H&R .410 to muzzle loader

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by T.H.Burleson, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. T.H.Burleson

    T.H.Burleson New Member

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    My grandfather purchased, and I have inherited, an H&R .410 model 1915. It is marked 410-44 so its an old one. The 410 shot shells I bought fit very snug in the chamber but there is no visible corrosion to narrow the bore. The snug fit begins immediately when you start to insert the shell. Is this a normal tolerance problem or am I looking at a problem?

    I was planning to use an adapter and trying the shotgun out as a "209" in-line muzzle loader, but the adapter doesn't fit into the chamber more than maybe a 16th of an inch.

    The shotgun is really worn so there isn't much value here but it is a family heirloom.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. grcsat

    grcsat Well-Known Member

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    All I know is your shotgun is made to use 2 1/2" .410 bore shells OR .44 W.C.F. /44-40 and .44 XL SHOT shells ONLY. I do believe that using any thing else may well be dangerous.

    Are you using the PROPER 2 1/2" shells and not the modern 3" shells?

    As for the rest, we will need lots of clear pics to see what you are doing .
     
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  3. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Unless you plan on making a muzzle loading SHOTGUN, I think you're asking for trouble.

    Rifles, you may notice, have much thicker barrel walls than shotguns, either muzzle loading or cartridge.

    If I was gonna try that, instead of an adapter for using shotgun primers, I'd buy some primed hulls.

    http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fiocchi-410-25-new_primed-hull-100_bag/productinfo/0644100/

    Cut two or three of 'em off with a razor knife, right at the end of the brass. Toss the tube.

    That way, if I decided this was a colossal waste of time, I'd still have that bag of primed cases. If I didn't want to load them myself, I could maybe find some other reloaded who might buy them. Seems like it would be much easier to sell primed hulls than to try to sell an adapter.
     
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  4. T.H.Burleson

    T.H.Burleson New Member

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    Definitely we are talking muzzle loading shotgun with light charges. The shotgun is at our lake house so no photos for a week or so. I was thinking that since the interference fit occurs when I start to insert the shell that this is not a 2 1/2 vs 3 inch occurrence. Also, the adapter doesn't fit at all. There wasn't some different standard chamber diameter back in the Early 1900s right?
     
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  5. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Is it chambered for the .44-40 shot cartridge?
     
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  6. T.H.Burleson

    T.H.Burleson New Member

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    How would I tell if it was chambered for the .44-40? Wouldn't that make it bigger than .410?
     
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  7. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Once you get the gun in hand I'd make a chamber cast and remove all doubt.
     
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  8. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    The gun is, you say, marked "410 44". The 44 is the 44/40 Extra Long Shot cartridge.

    44 Extra Long Shot.jpg

    44 Extra Long Shot 2.jpg
     
  9. Hawg

    Hawg Well-Known Member

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    You're going to have a problem loading it from the muzzle because of the choke restriction. If you're planning on using it for hunting during muzzle loader season you're going to have to weld the breech shut and add whatever priming system you want to use.
     
  10. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    If I remember right the .44 and the .410 shell are only .001 different in base diameter but a .410 shell is longer.
     
  11. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    You must remember that the actual diameter of a 44/40 is .429.
    I'm not up on shotguns and not sure just where the .410 measurement comes from. It could be land diameter (like the British .303) but a shotgun doesn't have lands. Maybe choke diameter at the muzzle?? Or, it could be a translation of the "gauge/bore" measurement that is based on how many bore sized lead balls it takes to make up a pound. (i.e. the diameter of one of those balls)
     
  12. Hawg

    Hawg Well-Known Member

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    Modern Italian 44-40's are .429. Older ones and some of the newer ones made here are .427. Also a 44-40 is a bottleneck. I don't get how it could be chambered for both. If it's chambered for .410 the 44-40 case is going to blow the neck out to chamber dimensions which would suck for reloaders.


    The bore diameter of a .44 is .4215, this is the size of the hole after it is drilled and reamed and it's what it would be in smooth bore configuration. The bore diameter of a .410 is .410.

    Bore diameter has no relationship to chamber diameter other than it's typically larger than bore diameter.
     
  13. jwdurf

    jwdurf Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    The .410 is accurately called the .410 bore, not the .410 gauge. The nominal bore at the end of the chamber is .410". Any choke will restrict that bore.
     
  14. grcsat

    grcsat Well-Known Member

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    The H&R .410 model 1915. That is marked 410-44 can use.
    1) 410-2 1/2 shotshells .
    2) 44-40 shotshells.
    3) 44 XL shotshells.
    4) 44 W.C.F. shotshells.
    5) 13MM Spanish shotshells.
    6) 15MM-? Italian shotshells. ( same junk as the Spanish, just different name)

    I don't think you can use the 44-40 standard solid with out doing some harm. That is not to say some people have used them in the past in an emergency . I know my uncle shot a bear once a very long time ago. He only did it the one and only time. As for the bear, it died right there and then in the garden.
    The shotgun he used was a Spanish double barrel with rabbit ears and a short 24 inch barrel . This happened during the 1930s. I remember the shotgun quite well because he always kept it hanging over the doorway until he passed away in the 1980s.

    Note.
    .410 bore diameters can and do vary widely, the SAAMI specifications allow from a minimum of .410 inch (10.41mm), up to plus 20thou of an inch (.430 inch/10.92mm).
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  15. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Actually Hawg didn't say this I did, I'm not sure how the forums combined our separate posts into one post?