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H&R knife pistol with police hammer !

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by V34, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. V34

    V34 New Member

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    Dear Sir,

    Please, I would have any information about this gun (see photo). Serial number (matching) is 1358XX. I read all the topics about HR pistols, very very interesting !
    Condition is perhabs 60% nickel finish (barrel, cylinder and front of part of frame) and some of casehardened on not visible part of hammer. "Auto. Ejecting 32 S&W CTGE" on left barrel flat and patent on top of barrel is "Harrington and Richardson Arms Company Worcester Mass USA Pat May 14 & Aug 6'89 April 2'95 April 7'96".
    Knife under barrel in original lengh and lessspur hammer, I think that this gun is a true rarity...but I would like to have your advanced advice about it.

    [​IMG]

    Sorry for my english.
    Yours truly.

    V34
     
  2. V34

    V34 New Member

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    H&R Knife Pistol with Police Hammer (2)

    It is better with photo...I try again !

    [​IMG]
     

  3. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, your H&R is quite a rarity. It is a Model 2 officially named by H&R as the "Automatic Bayonet Revolver". My source information estimates that there were only around 2000 made 1901-1917. The patented safety style hammer probably makes it even more scarce.
    If you have access to a Flaydermen's Guide it is listed as item 5I-067. my older copy shows the value range as VG-$575, Exc.-$1,450. (My book is a 9th edition from 2007, so values will have changed, I just don't know by how much.)

    Nice piece!!

    Dean
     
  4. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    V34,
    Welcome to the forum.
    I've seen probably 20 or so examples of the "KNIFE MODEL AUTO EJECTOR" (2nd Model 1901 - 1904; 3rd Model 1905 - circa 1917), own two examples, BUT I've never seen one with the "Safety Hammer", making it a "POLICE KNIFE MODEL".
    With the cartridge stamping on the left side of the barrel, it is a 3rd Model and with that set of patent dates it is a 1st Variation made between 1905 and 1908. The serial number in the 135K range, indicates to me it was made late in the variation series, probably 1908.
    As to RETAIL value: in 60% condition, a "regular" KNIFE MODEL would be worth between $600 and $650, to a collector. I've never seen one with the SAFETY HAMMER, as I stated above, so don't have a clear idea of the RETAIL value of one in that configuration. Purely guessing that the hammer would add a considerable bit to the collector interest, $100 - $200 maybe more??? Very nice find, thanks for posting.
    May I have your permission to add your picture to my research files?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  5. V34

    V34 New Member

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    Dear Sirs,

    Thank you very much for your answers. Could you named this one "H&R police Automatic Ejecting Knife pistol" ? Mr Hauff, No problem to give you some others photos of the beast...tell me what sort of details you would like. I could try to make the best photo for your file.

    On the about 2000 ex. produced do you know how were in 32 cal.? I have read that in 1902 H&R catalog they said that only the 38 cal. was produced.

    Thanks again to you.

    Bart.
     
  6. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Bart and Jim,
    I missed that it was in .32 caliber.....
    That puts it way out of my range of research. I was just going by Flayderman where it says .38 caliber only. .32 has got to be a lot scarcer.
     
  7. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Bart,
    You're welcome. Glad to help out.
    A picture of the right side, pic of the serial number and a close-up of the left side of the Safety hammer should do it. Thanks in advance.
    Bart AND deadin,
    It appears that the .32 cal was introduced sometime in the 19teens. Not many are seen, as you noted - they are scarce, I have no idea how many were made in .32. Also scarce is an example with a blued finish.
    Here's a pic of a doubly scarce piece - blue .32:

    IMG_1877_3.jpg

    And here's one with English proof marks:

    IMG_1856.jpg

    IMG_1854_2.jpg
     
  8. terminator

    terminator Member

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  9. V34

    V34 New Member

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    Dear Mr Hauff,

    I give you some photos of the Police Knife Pistol. I hope that you will be enjoyed with them.

    Next to read you.

    Sincerely.

    Bart



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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    V34,
    Thank you for posting those fine pictures. I am very happy to have them and your permission to include them in my files. I find it very exciting to come across previously unknown items of interest such as yours. Thanks again.
    If you don't mind me asking, from where are you posting?
     
  11. V34

    V34 New Member

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    Dear M. Hauff,

    I'm very happy that the photos enjoyed you. This gun is in very attic condition... I live in France. I love western american revolvers (the most beautiful ones inspite of me) and in the past I have had a lot of them especially civil war ones. A lot were sold in france during 1870 franco prussian war...
    Do you think that this little gun has a chance to figurate a day in an updated version of Mr Bill Goford's H&R major work ?
    Hope a day you could find an ultra rare specimen of knife model : blued, police hammer and 32 caliber !!!
    If you want others photos tell me what.

    Thanks for your answer and I'll be glad to read you again

    Bart
     
  12. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Bart,
    I enjoy your unbridled enthusiasm.
    It is possible that your gun can be figurated some day if the publisher decides to put out a second edition, if there is enough interest in a first edition and enough new info keeps coming in, that may happen. Bill's IVER JOHNSON book did run a 2nd (updated) Edition, so anything is possible.
    Thank you for your wish that I find that Ultra Rare specimen. That would be a real heart stopper.
    For now, your excellent photos are exactly what I need for my reference files. If I need more in the future, I will certainly take you up on your most generous offer.
    By the way, I absolutely enjoy your use of the English language. It is a pleasure to read.
    I hope to read you also again in the near future.
    Thanks for thanking.
    Jim (no need for formalities...)
     
  13. jamesjo

    jamesjo New Member

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    Jim, I'll bet it doesn't get any better for you, than to be involved in threads like this.:cool:
    Even a few crazy H&R lovers in France!!:thumbsup:

    Love those knife models too!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  14. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Jim,
    It works for me, but it's becomming, nearly a full time job, merely keeping up with the posts on all the different sites. I'll bet Jim K can "roger that".
     
  15. jamesjo

    jamesjo New Member

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    Jim,
    I hear you.
    Good thing it pays so well, right?;)
    Thanks for all you do for us!!
    Probably the only pay you are going to receive!
    Jim