[K2theM]

Hello,

I have an H&R Sportsman (SN 45126) that I repaired. It arrived with a broken trigger and SA Sear. I have made it functional again, but am getting light strikes. It does not appear to be consistent with specific cylinders. I am wondering if the issue could be a missing part. The gun was purchased partly disassembled, and I have done my best to get it in working order. Based on my experience with the gun during the repair process and after doing some more research on the parts, I believe I am missing the guide seat for the mainspring. The Mainspring IS a metal head model, but there is no guide rod seat on it and the spring sits in it's own recess within the frame. I just assumed that this is how this iteration of the gun went together as I found an image of the same frame gun with the same setup. However, every other image/part I've seen of the mainspring/guide rod assembly comes with a guide seat.

My question is, does my issue lie with a main spring that is under compressed, or are there other potential issues I should look into?

Photo of my gun as assembled:

Image of the Mainspring and Guide rod out of the gun.

 

[johnsxj]

The one diagram I found online for the 199 Sportsman doesn't show a guide seat for the main spring.
It does show two versions of hammers and firing pins. One with the firing pin mounted in the frame and the other with the pin as part of the hammer.
It could be possible that the firing pin is worn (I'm not an H&R guy but I've seen it plenty of times on Iver Johnson's). It's also possible that the mainspring is weak. The wrong firing pin spring on pin in frame models could bind up and not allow the pin to move forward enough. Last possibility is if you have the mainspring guide installed backwards where it meets the hammer.

 

[K2theM]

It's a 999 model not a 199, though many things are similar. Mine is also not a Firing Pin type, it's a solid blade hammer. It's possible the hammer is worn down, or the mainspring is worn out. I do not know their age. I believe the mainspring/guide to be non original as I understand the early models all had plastic guide rod heads not metal. The orientation i believe is also correct, as I don't think it will even fit if you try and install the main spring upside down.

 

[goofy]

Show me a picture of the front of the hammer. Yes they wear down and even break.

 

[TRAP55]

There's three different guide rods, and all three use a guide seat.

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[K2theM]

Show me a picture of the front of the hammer. Yes they wear down and even break.

@goofy

first image is of the hammer pressed forward inside the frame. Second is of the hammer by itself.

 

[goofy]

Thank you.
The hammer head protrudes more then enough to ignite the round.
Yes it it suppose to have the guide seat. After installing one try it if it still has light strikes try pulling the trigger and pull the hammer back as far as it will go and holding the trigger closed let go of the hammer if it fires when doing this then you need a new main spring.

 

[TRAP55]

Agree with Mike, plenty of firing pin there.
Taking a closer look at your pics, I can see the wear mark where the bolt locks in the cylinder, and it's to the rear of where it should be. Another good possibility, the cylinder has been replaced and not properly fitted, or worn to the point of excessive end shake. With end shake, when the hand comes forward and up to rotate the cylinder, the cylinder is pushed forward away from the firing pin.
With the gun un-cocked, grab the cylinder, and see if it moves back and forth.
Forgot to add, the guide seat adds tension to the hammer spring too.

 

[K2theM]

Taking a closer look at your pics, I can see the wear mark where the bolt locks in the cylinder, and it's to the rear of where it should be. Another good possibility, the cylinder has been replaced and not properly fitted, or worn to the point of excessive end shake. With end shake, when the hand comes forward and up to rotate the cylinder, the cylinder is pushed forward away from the firing pin.
With the gun un-cocked, grab the cylinder, and see if it moves back and forth.
Forgot to add, the guide seat adds tension to the hammer spring too.

I will check the cylinder again, but during my checkout of the gun I followed THIS REVOLVER CHECKOUT guide. When I was checking it out, I do not recall any front to back shake. When decocked there is only slight rotational shake, and no shake at all when the hammer and trigger are fully back. The cylinder gap at the front is also not undersized. However, I will check it again following your advice, as if the cylinder was moved forward, then it wouldn't matter how hard the hammer falls if the head can't fully reach the round.

I am thinking that the main issue is the Mainspring, as it's missing its "Preload spacer". It's possible that the mainspring is still in good condition, but the lack of a proper spacer means that it's not under enough tension when the hammer completes it's arc.

The other thing that I noticed when taking the photos for Goofy of the hammer, is the hammer screw moves with the hammer. I come from a Car/Motorcycle background, and things that are effectively "Axles" should not move with the thing they are suspending... at least unless they are supposed to. I DID use some loctite blue on the threads of the Hammer Screw, and either from the shocks from firing or from the simple hammer action, it has worked it's way free. Is this normal for this firearm? Or am I correct in my assumption that the Hammer Screw should not move once installed. If it shouldn't be moving then I have some cleaning and polishing to do to prevent the hammer from torquing the screw loose during use.

 

[TRAP55]

No, the hammer screw isn't suppose to move. Yes, it turning with the hammer would slow it way down. Remove both, and check the screw for galling. It should drop into the hole on the hammer.

 

[K2theM]

Hello All, some updates:

1. Replaced the mainspring and spring seat. Haven't had it to a range to see how it runs, but at least I know it's all new.

2. Hammer is still rotating the hammer screw when firing. I need to work on my cleaning/polishing for this part more, or get new Loctite (my tube is somewhat old). There aren't any burrs or obvious deformities in the shape of either the hammer or the hammer screw.

3. I am concerned that the striker on the hammer is bent/worn. I've always read/heard that you shouldn't dry fire rimfire revolvers because the striker can deform the cylinder face and cause loading/extraction and firing issues. That does not seem possible on this revolver as the striker does not drag or impact the cylinder at all. I checked this by removing the cylinder lug, pressing the hammer forward and then rotating the cylinder. There is no drag and the cylinder can freely spin just as it could as when opened for extraction/loading. However, I DO get a good strike imprint on a block of wood if I hold it up to the striking area and cycle the gun (top broken open/ cylinder removed)

 

[K2theM]

Bump?

Wondering if anyone knows if the striker portion of the hammer is supposed to be able to impact the cylinder face when in the full forward position on a Single Piece Hammer version.

 

[goofy]

I am not sure but one way to se is cock the hammer and holding the hammer to let it down slow pull the trigger and hold the trigger back and let the hammer down and see if it goes all the way to stop the cylinder. Release the trigger and see if it pulls back the hammer a little bit.
If holding the trigger and the hammer goes far enough to stop the cylinder then yes it will hit the cylinder when fired. And if the trigger sets the hammer back when released then that will be your answer.

 

[K2theM]

@goofy

The hammer sets back after trigger reset (meaning the striker portion is not protruding when the trigger is released forward). The hammer is able to go fully forward when released (trigger both full back and full forward). However, the striker portion of the hammer does not impact the cylinder in any way. This has been confirmed by removing the cylinder locking lug and then pressing the hammer forward. When the hammer is fully forward the striker portion does not drag or contact the cylinder face in any way. Double confirmed by testing with paint and dry firing. There are no marks of any kind on the cylinder face.

I am wondering if this may be my ultimate source of light strikes. Checking the condition of the striker portion of the hammer, it also looks a bit bent?

Here is an enlargement of the above photo of my hammer. The lines added are straight. Notice that there is a "dip" or downturn in the striker in the last 1/3 of it's length.

Here is the same example using a stock photo from Numrich:
While the perspective/angle is different, I can tell that the striker does not waver over it's entire length and is a straight line to the tip.