H&R Top Break Parts Needed

Hello! Cool forum ya all have here, I'm stoked to be a part of it now. I recently purchased a H&R 38 S&W. It's in pretty decent shape. The research I've done tells me its a Second Model (Black Powder) It's Nickel, 3 1/4" Barrel, Auto ejecting, 5 shot, Target Logo black hard grip, Harrington & Richardson Arms Company Worechester Mass U.S.A. Pat Oct 4 1887, May 14 & Aug,6,89 on top of the barrel with no cal on the left side. Ser# hidden under the cylinder = A74525. I of course have a question or two, maybe three. 1. Should the hammer hold in the single fire position? This one will with coaxing of the little tab behind the trigger in t he back of the trigger guard. I took it apart and saw no spring in there to make the single fire action happen. 2, Of course id like to find parts, the tabs on the back of the cylinder are worn more than I'd like. and looking for a spring for the single fire option...if in fact my theory is correct that it should have single fire in addition to double action. 3. black powder....can this be safely shot with smokeless powder? if not at all, what is your black powder grain recommendation and bullet type? and reloading recommendation? this is a very cool gun and I'd hate to not be able to plink with it. If Its recommended to not use, I will let it go as I don't collect guns for display.

HGEvans25 said:

Hello! Cool forum ya all have here, I'm stoked to be a part of it now. I recently purchased a H&R 38 S&W. It's in pretty decent shape. The research I've done tells me its a Second Model (Black Powder) It's Nickel, 3 1/4" Barrel, Auto ejecting, 5 shot, Target Logo black hard grip, Harrington & Richardson Arms Company Worechester Mass U.S.A. Pat Oct 4 1887, May 14 & Aug,6,89 on top of the barrel with no cal on the left side. Ser# hidden under the cylinder = A74525. I of course have a question or two, maybe three. 1. Should the hammer hold in the single fire position? This one will with coaxing of the little tab behind the trigger in t he back of the trigger guard. I took it apart and saw no spring in there to make the single fire action happen. 2, Of course id like to find parts, the tabs on the back of the cylinder are worn more than I'd like. and looking for a spring for the single fire option...if in fact my theory is correct that it should have single fire in addition to double action. 3. black powder....can this be safely shot with smokeless powder? if not at all, what is your black powder grain recommendation and bullet type? and reloading recommendation? this is a very cool gun and I'd hate to not be able to plink with it. If Its recommended to not use, I will let it go as I don't collect guns for display.

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Yep, you have a 2nd model, 3rd variation, made in 1893.

1. If it has an exposed hammer - the hammer should have a single action option(manual cocking). Sounds like you're missing the sear spring(sold out at Numrich).

2. If you mean the ratchet on the extractor that the pawl pushes against to rotate the cylinder - Numrich is sold out of them too. If you do find one elsewhere you'll need to get it "timed" by a gunsmith.

3. Absolutely NO smokeless at all. Topbreaks are inherently weaker than solid frame guns. For BP loads - it is easier than loading smokeless.. You don't even have to measure the powder. Just fill the case to 1/16" to 1/8" below the mouth of the case with FFFg black powder. Then seat a 148gr +/- 10gr bullet on top of it. You want a softer alloy bullet, and one with little bearing surface. Too hard of a bullet and too much bearing surface will cause the frame to stretch with older topbreaks. If you've never loaded BP before there are a few things you must keep in mind:

A. air space in the case is bad, very bad - so a minor compressed load is ideal.
B. you might want to open the flashhole a little for your BP loads - but you'll never want to use those cases for smokeless later.
C. you will want to clean the hell out of the cases because the salts will embed into the brass and cause it to get brittle.
D. since BP works at lower pressures it wont expand the brass to seal the chamber as well as smokeless - so you'll be doing more cleaning. You can anneal the brass some to soften it to allow it to expand(typically isn't worth doing with small handgun cases.

.38S&W uses a .361" bullet, where as .38Long Colt, .38Spl, .357Mag, .360DW, .357Max, and .357SuperMag all use .357" jacketed and .358" cast bullets.

However, lots of folks have had decent results using 148gr hollow base .357"-.358" wadcutters because the base expands to the larger bore, and it is made of softer lead.

You don't want the heavier 180gr or 200gr .361" bullets that are meant for the sturdier Webley revolvers. They will cause too much breech thrust and frame stretching, especially on weaker BP frames.

Primers - standard small pistol primers will do just fine. But as I mentioned before, with BP you sometimes need to widen the flash hole a little bit to help get the BP to ignite reliably. ...but if you use those cases with widened flash holes with smokeless you can get excessive pressures on the primer - ruptured primers, flattened primers, ejected primers, etc.

If you go looking for a smokeless gun - the easiest way to ID a smokeless gun is to look for the caliber designation being stamped on the left side of the barrel. I know left-right is all in perspective, so - hold gun in right hand like you were to shoot it, aim away, then look at the side that is towards your left hand.