hello:)

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by cointoss2, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. cointoss2

    cointoss2 Guest

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (3/12/02 8:14:12 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All hello:)
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    i posted this on another forum and they pointed me at the C&R forum, I hope this is it :p

    anyway here it goes
    i have a question, feel free to answer I was wondering if anyone knew of any sites that contain info about what kind of rifles etc armies around the world use.

    i'm mostly interested in Greece


    thanx in advance cya all

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3016
    (3/12/02 11:32:19 am)
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    Are you talking currently, or in the past?

    The Greeks have used everything from Mannlichers, Steyr M95s, to Carcanos, to British Enfields, to US M1 Garands...don't know what they use now....(I will NOT stoop to saying something stupid like "It's all Greek to me..." )

    Now while I hope to plant the seed that we are All-Knowing and All-Powerful (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! )...

    One of the simplest ways is to scroll to the bottom of the page, find the "Google" search feature we provide, type in "Greek Army" "Greek Rifles" or whatever, hit search...and hold on...

    If it's like any other search, it will take you a while to find out what you want because you'll be so sidetracked reading all kinds of other neat interesting stuff you never knew was out there....

    And don't be surprised if a bunch of the sites are actually in GREEK...
    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY He's calling you an @sshole." ---- From "A Season on the Brink"

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3017
    (3/12/02 11:33:45 am)
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    And oh yeah, I almost forgot...WELCOME to our little corner of cyberspace....make yourself at home, and post frequently!
    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY He's calling you an @sshole." ---- From "A Season on the Brink"

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (3/12/02 11:49:28 am)
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    well i've searched google upside down .. no site contains information on what type of guns the greek army uses ...
    not even greek ones !

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3025
    (3/12/02 2:13:52 pm)
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    OK, so you want to know CURRENT issue, right?

    Let me do some digging if somebody doesn't know now....
    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY He's calling you an @sshole." ---- From "A Season on the Brink"

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (3/12/02 2:16:21 pm)
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    even if u dont come up with anything thanks man

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3026
    (3/12/02 2:18:13 pm)
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    Try this link, from the Nato website...I haven't had the time to search it yet.....


    www.isn-lase.ethz.ch/cgi-...ec@2~&
    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY He's calling you an @sshole." ---- From "A Season on the Brink"

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3027
    (3/12/02 2:42:22 pm)
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    Straight from Janes...I went and subscribed...this is about all I could get for free without dropping about a grand or so...

    From the latest Janes Infantry weapons of the World...


    GREECE
    0.303 British
    0.45 Auto Colt
    0.50 Browning Machine Gun
    120 mm mortar Type E56
    20 mm Hispano-Suiza HS 820
    20 mm Oerlikon S
    7.62 x 51 mm NATO
    81 mm mortar Type E44
    9 x 19 mm Parabellum
    Advanced Weapons Technologies (AWT)
    AWT 12.7 mm M93 Black Arrow anti-matériel rifle
    AWT 7.62 mm M70M sniper rifle
    EBO 7.62 mm G3A3 and G3A4 rifles
    EBO 7.62 mm MG3, EHK21A1 and EHK11A1 machine guns
    EBO 9 mm EMP5 sub-machine gun
    EBO 9 mm EP7 pistol
    Elviemek EM 01 defensive hand grenade
    Elviemek EM 02 offensive hand grenade
    Elviemek EM 03 practice hand grenade
    Elviemek EM 04 smoke grenades
    Elviemek SA
    FN 5.56 mm Minimi light machine gun
    Greek Powder and Cartridge Co (Pyrkal)
    Hellenic Arms Industry (EBO) SA
    NATIONAL INVENTORIES
    Oerlikon Contraves Pyrotec 30 mm KCB Ammunition
    PYRKAL 107 mm HE GRM20 cluster mortar bomb
    PYRKAL 81 mm M374A2 HE bomb
    Steyr 7.62 mm SSG 69 sniper rifle

    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY He's calling you an @sshole." ---- From "A Season on the Brink"

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (3/12/02 2:49:16 pm)
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    Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much man! U even found me the sniper weapon (which im mostly interested in) without even asking U rule

    The funny part tho is that I searched Jane too but I dind't come up with anything Anyway thanks again!

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (3/12/02 2:58:36 pm)
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    SSG 69 owns
    its police weapon tho :]

    i Think the M70M is the army's sniper rifle but I dont know it!! Neither can I find it :]

    Anyway SSG69 owns too much so

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3028
    (3/12/02 3:14:46 pm)
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    It was fun, I was curious to see if any No1MkIII ENfields would be listed...

    Funny, that the .303 cartridge was listed first, but I find nothing that shoots it on the list, is there?

    And we dumped a CRAPLOAD of Garands and BARs there in 46 and 47 during their Civil War, I kind of expected to see them, or the .30-06 listed before the .303....but during WWII the Enfield was the main weapon, so I guess there's some left over...
    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY He's calling you an @sshole." ---- From "A Season on the Brink"

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (3/12/02 3:24:04 pm)
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    oh come on man ur being mean ... u really think greece would fight with enfields in year 2002 ?

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 9
    (3/12/02 3:25:24 pm)
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    Btw Greece is in the 15 most high tech equiped countries in the world ...

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1980
    (3/12/02 3:27:52 pm)
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    Recently saw some Enfield No. 1 Mk III rifles with Greek letters and Roman numerals carved in the stocks - may have come out of Greece or Macedonia.
    Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3036
    (3/12/02 6:36:38 pm)
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    Silencerious, no I'm not! The Finnish Army didn't officially drop the Mosin Nagant model 91, (the LONG one, yeah the same rifle the Russians used against the Japs in 1905, and all through WWI, until the 91/30...) until NINETEEN 91. They STILL use M39s and 91/30s I think in some reserve units...as well as for snipers.

    The Russians along with the entire ex-Combloc STILL use the 7.62x54R Nagant round as their front'line sniper round and MMG round, in fact in some units, still with the Nagant!

    India was still using the Enfield until the 70s or 80s in some units, may STILL have them in reserve...and as late as the 90s, each Indian Rifle squad was issued one No1MkIII for use with a grenade launcher.

    Heck, Britain had them in inventory until the late 60s, and yes, I believe Greece used Enfields front line, in some units until not THAT long ago. Probably in the last 10 years....

    That list was updated by Janes in January 2002! If they STILL list .303 in inventory, it is for a reason. That is why I was surprised not to see any Vickers or Brens listed. along with Enfields...

    And I still say they must have them either in reserve, or for training. Along with either M3 Grease Guns or .45 autos left from the US MAGs from the later 40s early 50s....which would explain the SECOND entry, .45ACP, with no pistols or SMGs on the list to use it....

    Just like in Iraq, our SF got into some serious firefights when they were discovered in their holes observing the main highway from Baghdad to Basra to warn if reinforcements were coming south to hit our undefended flank on the main armored thrust....

    The ranges of the firefights in most cases was 4-500m....and our Green Beanies said the WORST return fire they took was, in one case, NOT from the 150 Iraqui regulars with the 47s, but the Bedouin militia armed with....ENFIELDS. 1991

    And just last week, in the USA Today? What did the picture on page 3 show that the Philippino Militia were carrying?

    Garands....no matter that the main issue weapon for the Army since Marcos was the M16.....

    Don't be so surprised, a good bolt action rifle, or WWII Semi-auto, can still hold it's own in an old-fashioned Infantryman's firefight...especially one in which there is NO extensive support to call in, either Air or Artillery, and the grunt has to do it on his own...don't sell them short, especially with 2nd or third rate powers, or even with reserves in some FIRST rate powers....and don't for a second think WWI and WWII rifles are NOT issued as a front line weapon many places around the world...

    Case in point, the wide open spaces in Afghanistan....there are as many Enfields being used effectively in the mountains as there are 47s and 74s....and at range, are actually BETTER.

    And what was (is?) the main weapon used by the Serbians and Bosnians and Albanians recently, AND to today? Mosin Nagant variants...

    I could go on and on, and we're STILL not considering Africa, the East Indies, or even South America!



    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY He's calling you an @sshole." ---- From "A Season on the Brink"

    velvetnsteel
    Member
    Posts: 75
    (3/12/02 8:47:37 pm)
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    Welcome SiL. You will have fun here!!
    Long live the Swedish Mauser!!

    SiLeNcERioUS
    Member
    Posts: 12
    (3/13/02 12:22:55 am)
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    oh well =P

    polishshooter
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3053
    (3/13/02 10:15:41 am)
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    Sorry for the lecture, Sil...I get long-winded like that....

    I guess I get fired up when people, especially young guys or old guys that should know better, get "high tech" and "new" confused with "effective..."

    Some of the BEST weapons designs, almost 100 years old by now, have NOT been "improved" no matter how many plastic parts, optical sights, heliosupergrooved rifling or whatever...

    Kinda like Glockies worshipping at the "Plastic Altar..."

    Just the newest attempt to make the perfect combat pistol...

    There is no such beast, all have pluses and minuses...


    And given that, the best pistol EVER designed for combat was designed in 1905...by John Browning.

    The best Combat shotgun of all time was invented in either 1897 or 1912, depending on whether you can handle a hammer or not...again designed by John Browning...

    The best HMG of all time was designed in 1919...I won't say who, but you can guess...

    MMG? hard to beat a Vickers/Maxim design...

    LMG? Hard to beat an MG42 or derivatives...or any of the various FN designs

    SAW? Bren or BAR...state of the art BEFORE they called them "SAWs"....

    Best Combat Bolt Action Rifle? Enfield....(OK, the Mauser was a CLOSE second [third?] even with it's shortcomings... )

    And what has changed in Combat rifle design is NOT NECESSARILY action type, firepower, bore size, mag capacity, etc, what we all SEE on the surface...but TACTICS which has dictated change to first semi-then full auto, with reduced or sub caliber rounds.....but the job of the Infantryman has changed too...

    And look at what is happening RIGHT NOW in Afghanistan...people are TODAY questioning the "effectiveness" of US Infantry and tactics in Gardez... COULD IT BE, it's a "riflemans battle?" Could it be in the Terrain, and the altitude, and the range, and the snow and fog, support ISN'T that effective, and what is needed is a RIFLEMAN with a BATTLE RIFLE to engage at range, and to fix a bayonet to close with the enemy, to assault? Used to be, even as late as WWII, the RIFLE was the main OFFENSIVE as well as defensive weapon of the Infantry. Now, it is secondary, defensive, Infantry is only to find and fix for support to kill, then occupy later...

    There really IS nothing new under the sun....

    With proper understanding of appropriate tactics, and steps taken to maximize the pluses while minimizing the negatives, a "good man with a rifle" is NOT undergunned with a "typical" WWI Bolt Action rifle against the "highest tech" soldier one on one....in fact in some cases MAY outgun HIM.


    Crap, I did it again, another LECTURE...SORRY!
    Hi. My name is Mike. And I am a Nagantaholic. "Don't hear him call you an @sshole, hear WHY he's calling you an @sshole." -------- From "A Season on the Brink"