How can you liberate a Liberal?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 45nut, May 3, 2009.

  1. 45nut

    45nut Well-Known Member

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    My niece is a Socialist. She will not admit it and vehemently denies this when I call her one. Obozo isn't a Socialist and he just wants to make America more equal. I said we have equal opportunity, but that doesn't guarantee equal results. To that she agrees, but went off about "rich people" not paying taxes to support public schools and sending their kids to private school, which she apparently considers some sort of crime against the poor. She is toatlly in Obozo's control and I'm just a gun hugging dork.

    I told her that people that send their kids to private school, pay their kids tuition to said private school AND their taxes to the local substandard, Gov't run, poor teacher perfoming ISD.

    She wants equal RESULTS which I told her is one of Marx's major tenents right next to the redistribution of wealth. She will not admit that Obozo is a radical Socialist and told me that Reaganomics was "revisionist history" and the reason we are in this current mess, naturally with Bush's 8 years and Clinton's as well.

    I'm trying to get her to come to Texas because 70% of all new jobs in 2008 were created in the Lone Star State (Republic of Texas:D:D:D) When I make secesh talk, she calls me a dork. I told her after we sec.ede, I might be able to get her through the check point, but only if she drops the Socialist Ideaology. :D

    I can't make any headway with her. :mad: At least she and I can discuss it until we are both shouting (I woke my wife from her Sunday nap :eek::eek:) and we decide to disagree. I had to leave the house and go to the local internet cafe to talk to some "RIGHT" minded folks!! :D

    Her sister either hangs up, leaves the room or blocks my e-mails ROTFLMAO :D

    It frustrates the hell out of me and I can't get through to her that the American dream is not a right. This great nation is in trouble because of wrong headed thinking like this. And to think, should it come down to it, that I would lay down my life to save it from the wrong ideas of my own family. Sounds like ci.vil wa.r all over again. :mad:

    I am at a loss trying to disuade her from thinking that he is her Messiah. She won't read links I send her that are well thought out and she wouldn't read "Libert & Tyranny" if I sent it to her. I think I'm going to write her personal e-mails with excerpts from L&T and not tell her it's from an evil conservative talk show host! :eek: :D

    Thanks, I needed to vent and rant. Forgive my spelling, for some reason the spell check isn't working on this CPU.

    I hope one day she will wake up before it's too late, but I think that is a pipe dream. She will change her mind when I kill a Unicorn in the Hill Country.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2009
  2. jacksonco

    jacksonco New Member

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    Your niece is who she is and you will most likely never change her mind about the way she sees things. That she will have to do on her own. And there is a chance that will happen as long as she feels she doesn't have to push back. Continue having your discussions with her but not to the point that either of you become upset. In time she may very well see things from your perspective. In the mean time you are all family and that is one political party you don't want to see broken up.


    Jeff
     

  3. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    This is an easy one from an information standpoint. The rich pay much more than their 'fair share' of taxes. Considering personal income tax in 2006, the top 5% of income earners above $153,542 annually pays 60.14% of all income taxes collected. The bottom 50% of earners, less than $31,987, pays only 2.99% of all income tax collected.

    Further more, the richest 1% Americans in 2006, above $388,806, pays a whopping 39.89% of all taxes collected. :eek: The rich stop paying FICA taxes at 106,000 but that's because the FICA contribution means little to them at retirement. They consequently only draw FICA (Medicare and Social Security) at rates par with $106K in contributions. When looking at your pay stub you'd think you were paying a ton more Federal Taxes because of FICA but leave that out of the equation when comparing true 'income taxes' with yours and that of the truly rich. FICA may benefit us lower-mid income earners some day but it means little to the rich.

    The Bush tax cuts obviously gave cuts to the richest Americans but those Americans own small businesses to some degree, and definitely contribute to capital investment dollars of companies to a larger degree through stock. In 2000 before the Bush tax cuts, the stats were as follows... The top 1% paid 37.42% of all taxes. The top 5% paid 56.47% of all taxes. The bottom 50% of earners paid 3.91% of all taxes. So, even as the evil Bush tax cuts gave substantial cuts to the rich, the rich managed to grow their wealth and effectively take on MORE overall tax burden. That burden allowed the lower income earners to inherit MUCH lower overall tax burdens and simultaneously make higher wages due to wealth created by the rich folks' investments. It doesn't seem logical does it? That's because few people understand what makes the economy run, and that's willingness by business owners and investors to place their money into the free market system. Cutting taxes on the wealthiest citizens helps us all.

    So, let's summarize... Between 2000 and 2006, the following happened to the tax burden of individuals.

    Top 1% of earners - 2000 Burden ($313,469+): 37.42% - 2006 Burden ($388,806+): 39.89%
    Top 5% of earners - 2000 Burden ($128,336+): 56.47% - 2006 Burden ($153,542+): 60.14%
    Top 10% of earners - 2000 Burden ($92,144+): 67.33% - 2006 Burden ($108,904+): 70.79%
    Top 25% of earners - 2000 Burden ($55,225+): 84.01% - 2006 Burden ($64,702+): 86.27%
    Top 50% of earners - 2000 Burden ($27,682+): 96.09% - 2006 Burden ($31,987+): 97.01%
    Bottom 50% of earners - 2000 Burden ($27,682-): 3.91% - 2006 Burden ($31,987-): 2.99%

    So, between 2000 and 2006, the rich got richer, AND the poor ALSO got richer while paying an overall lesser tax burden. Imagine that... :eek: :D

    See http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 for my data source...

    I regularly fly this flag, and I won't shy away from doing so now either. The attached picture is an analysis of taxes from 1999 to 2007 for various income groups that I did to refute a commonly misunderstood email being floated around. I know the figures are correct because I did the calculations... :D As you can see, even in light of the dreaded Bush tax cuts, the lower and middle classes made out like bandits. My table assumes that the earners filed standard deduction and did not itemize and also had no children. Each eligible child would qualify the family for $1000 in real credits for all income ranges. That's VERY significant for the average family. One eligible child for the $60K married case in 2007 would have meant a 40.3% decrease in taxes versus a 27% decrease. 2 kids would have meant a 53.3% decrease in taxes over 8 years. :eek: For a single parent at 30K 1 child would have meant a 48.2% decrease in taxes. 2 kids for the same 30K Single earner would have meant a 77.2% decrease in federal income taxes. Come on guys. Tell me again how Conservative Bush tax cuts only benefited the wealhy?... :rolleyes:

    Just because policies appear to favor the rich doesn't mean that they're not good for you too... Tell her to pick up a Micro and Macro economics textbook some time. Do so in a nurturing way... :D
     

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    Last edited: May 3, 2009
  4. hkruss

    hkruss Active Member

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    WHEN Texas secedes, will you please sponsor me so I can move over there?
     
  5. Vladimir

    Vladimir Active Member

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    Question: How do you liberate a liberal?

    Answer:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. islenos

    islenos Active Member

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    When we become a Republic once again, Lincoln...auh er Obama won't dare to try and pull us back to the Union. For Texas has the Pantex Plant, Americas Nuclear Stockpile.:D
     
  7. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

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    When she goes off on a rant about rich people sending their kids to private schools, did you mention to her the fact that her hero Barry is sending his kids to private schools? All the socialists do.
     
  8. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    How about just focus on the tax policies which she likely thinks are helping only the wealthy before the Messiah took over?... Don't discount what I wrote above. Use all the talking points one wishes to use but the pure facts are the only persuader here. :D

    Obama has no plans to help the poor and middle class beyond what Bush tax policy has already done for those groups... :eek: In fact, the inflationary repercussions of Obama's plans will make life much WORSE for low income earners.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2009
  9. glocknut

    glocknut Active Member

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    Respectfully, i have to disagree with that idea. I have a socialist aunt and uncle. The way i see it...they have attacked my freedom with their support of people like obama and the democrats...not to mention the unions.

    I my opinion they seek to shove thier ideology down everyones throat. In my mind that makes them "the enemy". The only relatives that have any chance of being considered "my family" are those who love freedom and do not seek to control my life and my fortune. Period!

    mike
    gn
     
  10. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    GN, I have a Grandpa that didn't want to see McCain win so he voted for Obama. He didn't believe anything his lowly eldest grandson told him. Most recently, he told my mother when asked why he voted for Obama, "well, you live and you learn". He now vehemently agrees with me. Teach your family; don't chastise them. Often time they'll come to the right conclusion without assistance at all. :)
     
  11. TxIronWolf

    TxIronWolf New Member

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    The sad thing is you can't get them back. No matter what you say or show them it will all be lies, or you are a racist and there for you no longer matter...

    The truly sad thing is that even the Right is way to far left for me. But I don't want to hijack a topic and go for so I will post one else where....


    Good like in getting her back ....Remember We have cookies on the dark side.
     
  12. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    Actually, we have tax tables, 1040 forms and fact on the dark side. If that doesn't prove otherwise, then the subject is a helpless case.
     
  13. 45nut

    45nut Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone for posting. Good ideas all even GN's! :eek:

    Pony, I will send her that info via e-mail and if she still denies the truth, then I will be content to be her Uncle. She knows that we are diametrically opposed, but we can talk about and drop it when it gets too hot and talk of things we have in common. Like cooking. I taught her some of my Tex-Mex recipes last summer and her Aunt and I are trying to convince her to move to Texas. I just hate to see her believing all these lies.

    I told her, one day the scales will fall off of your eyes and you will see the truth, I just hope it's not too late.
     
  14. Marlin T

    Marlin T Well-Known Member

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    So I wonder what is next, govt insurance for your bets at the racetrack? No more 50 to 1 odds? Man, this guy is out of control.

    Thanks for your help Pony, once again. Maybe one of these days my family will take me off their ban list, because maybe, I’m not really THAT far out there.

    _____________________________________

    Sun May 3, 3:48 pm ET
    WASHINGTON
    – Wall Street is not going to play as dominant a role in the economy as regulations reduce "some of the massive leveraging and the massive risk-taking that had become so common," President Barack Obama says.

    The changes in the role of Wall Street and the huge profits that came from that risk-taking could mean other adjustments as well, Obama said in an interview in this week's New York Times Magazine.

    "That means that more talent, more resources will be going to other sectors of the economy," he said. "I actually think that's healthy. We don't want every single college grad with mathematical aptitude to become a derivatives trader. We want some of them to go into engineering, and we want some of them to be going into computer design."

    The Obama administration is trying to restore more regulations on the financial sector to avoid some of the risk-taking that helped cause the current economic problems.

    "Wall Street will remain a big, important part of our economy, just as it was in the '70s and the '80s," he said. "It just won't be half of our economy."

    Obama said he expects that government efforts to fix the economy will cause long-term changes.

    "What I think will change, what I think was an aberration, was a situation where corporate profits in the financial sector were such a heavy part of our overall profitability over the last decade," he said.

    Obama said he's confident that people will regain trust and confidence in the financial system, but he believes it will take time.

    "I think it's important to understand that some of that wealth was illusory in the first place," he said.
     
  15. 45nut

    45nut Well-Known Member

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    The problem with redistribution of wealth is eventually you run out of wealthy people to fleece. Either that, or they move to Grand Cayman! :eek: :D :D
     
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