How many rounds to stop the threat? Apparently 12.

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by AlphaKoncepts, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. AlphaKoncepts

    AlphaKoncepts Member

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    Here's a video where the cops had to shoot the armed aggressor 12 times before the threat stopped. They shot 11 rounds and 5 second later shot another round and 5 seconds after that the aggressor collapsed.

     
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  2. jedwil

    jedwil Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I saw that video yesterday and was astounded.
     
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  3. AlphaKoncepts

    AlphaKoncepts Member

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    I wasn't really at all surprised. I'm not a hunter but I have seen on TV where deer are shot straight through the lungs and run 200 or 300 yards before collapsing. The only off switch shot is the cranial cavity. This attacker was likely "walking dead" after the first few shots.
     
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  4. Bigdog57

    Bigdog57 Well-Known Member

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    I have dropped two deer "DRT" in their tracks by neck shots. Take out the spine, the critter drops. Would work on a two-legged critter too.
    I'd like to know the full story on this event. Who was the guy on the ground? Did the perp have a gun? Hard to tell in this video.
     
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  5. AlphaKoncepts

    AlphaKoncepts Member

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    I don't know the full story but appears to be a domestic violence case. The "guy" on the ground looks like a woman to me. Yes the aggressor had a gun in his hand, the cops did not start shooting until the aggressor smacked the woman in the face with his gun.
     
  6. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Ok blow this up and see.
    The cops were telling him to drop the gun (Being held in his left hand) instead he pistol wept the lady on the ground (and it sounds like his gun went off) So he shot first THEN the cop shot 10 rounds then 3 seconds later shot one more (The kill shot) (All the time the lady on the ground was trying to get away) Then the guy dropped and was still moving so the cop shot 2 more times (Just in case shots). I could not see where his gun went it looks like he was still holding on to it when the cop shot the last two.
    I do not see where the cop did ANYTHING wrong.
    Mike
     
  7. AlphaKoncepts

    AlphaKoncepts Member

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    Nobody said the cops did anything wrong. No reason to be defensive. This isn't about what the cops did, this is about how many rounds the human body can "absorb" before stopping. This is about training for realistic scenarios and understanding there is no magic number of rounds to be fired in a self defense situation.
     
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  8. ms6852

    ms6852 GUNZILLA Supporting Member

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    How many shots actually hit the person? I know of a patient when I worked at the hospital where the patient was shot several times in the face and head with a .357. The spouse emptied the gun and patient still survived. If GOD is not ready for you yet, you will not die.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  9. AlphaKoncepts

    AlphaKoncepts Member

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    No idea how many hit, but it's also safe to assume average civilians in the real world will also have misses.

    I was doing a little research for a blog article I'm writing about this video and discovered there are numerous instances of morbidly obese people sucking up 8 shots and no vitals being damaged. While I dont think that's the case here, I think this video should be used as a study guide to understanding real world scenarios and putting aside Hollywood myths.
     
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  10. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I was NOT being defensive at all.
    And when you shot someone you empty your gun and reload. I do not care if the first shot was good or not. You always fire intill you are empty or the person you are shooting at is down and not moving.
    It looks like most if not all the shots hit the bad guy.
    And if you blow it up you will see the bad guy has the gun still in his hand so follow up shots are a good thing.
    This is fine example why LEO should all carry .45s This sounds like a .40. A .45 stops even the biggest man. Also LEO can not use SD rounds because it rips up to much. My partner complains about that all the time. I just blew it up more and you can see the 2 shots at the end hit the bad guy in the head.(You can see part of his head open up)
    So to answer your question.
    AS MANY SHOTS AS IT TAKES OR AS MANY AS YOU NEED IN TILL YOU ARE OUT OF AMMO OR THE BAD GUY IS DEAD..
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  11. AlphaKoncepts

    AlphaKoncepts Member

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    Exactly. As many as it takes. That is the correct answer.

    Edit to add, nearly every department in the USA uses jacketed hollow point ammunition to the best or my knowledge.
     
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  12. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    It happens in real life this way. Only in Hollywierd do people get shot (other than head shots) and die instantly.

    After that hoodlum in Florida (the black kid with the hoodie and the skittles) got wasted by the whacko wanna-be security neighborhood watch guy - I got into a heated argument with my daughter-in-law. Remember that the security guy got into a scuffle with skittle boy and ended up putting a 9mm in his chest, continued to scuffle and shot him a second time. She was taking some sort of SCI Class in her school - and her 'teacher' told our little darling that 'it was lights-out instantly' with a chest hit like that, and that it wasn't necessary for security guy to shoot skittle boy more than the first shot - so it was plainly a case of Homicide. I told Miss Nibbs that her Teacher was full of balloon juice.

    I tried to explain to our princess that it wasn't likely that skittle boy was instantly dead and could well have remained a threat for another minute or two. He would only pass into unconsciousness after the oxygen in his blood was used up and deprived his brain. Doesn't take an awful long time, but seldom is it instant. Our little darling was indignant that I would dare to question the wisdom of her female CSI teacher. Princess hasn't spoken with the ignorant old guy (me) since... after all - her Teacher is a classroom Pro and I'm only an ignorant old combat veteran from a long time ago war. People died differently back then I guess.
     
  13. goofy

    goofy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Yep My partner in the shop said they use Federal Hydro Shock at his department.
    BUT they only carry .40s. The state police carry .45s.
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  14. Robert Cowles

    Robert Cowles Well-Known Member

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    Working at a local gun shop some years ago I got into a discussion with a customer about the relative "stopping" power of calibers (9mm vs 40 or 45). The guy with him said "oh you are right I was shot 10 times with a 9mm." Being a bit skeptical (you hear a lot of BS) I asked where he was hit and he pulled up his shirt to show me scars from 10 hits center mass on his chest. How it missed his heart is beyond me, but he was living proof that you never know. With adrenaline and rage, sometimes it takes more. Don't think he would have been telling the story if it had been a 45.
     
  15. zant

    zant Well-Known Member

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    Human physiology is a strange thing and varies with the individual......one can get shot with a .22lr(2 day on street SF trainee)in the upper chest and die.....or one can catch 8 AK rounds(all over body)and be bayoneted 3 times-and still kill all attackers while throwing wounded on slick-Roy Benavidez(CMH).....That's why you shoot until threat is stopped.