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Hey all I'm new here and I'm looking for some help if anyone can shed some light on this old gun I just got

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This looks more like a recent kit gun then an actual antique?
Oh ok so are the proofs irrelevant than? Like fake proofs to make the gun look older?

I got this gun out of a storage locker so I'm just trying to find oout about it i dont know anything about it.... so any info would be amazing, I've looked online and only thing I've found is maybe it's called a " coat gun" ?
 

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Please post a pictue of the other side of the gun. You picture of the mark is not very clear.
 

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Personally I think it's old, they were still making selling and using these things into the early 20th century in Europe. Sorry but I don't recognize the mark on the barrel, it may not be a government proof house mark but a makers mark. Not all countries had proofing laws and proofing houses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Personally I think it's old, they were still making selling and using these things into the early 20th century in Europe. Sorry but I don't recognize the mark on the barrel, it may not be a government proof house mark but a makers mark. Not all countries had proofing laws and proofing houses.
Ya it's hard because I don't know what to look for the closest think I found was Belgian coat gun but I don't know if it's Belgian or English or France or even Europe. Any info helps . Thanks
 

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Boy, I don't know. Parts of it look old but then the muzzle appears to be very sharp. The barrel flats...I can't decide if they're rounded off enough to be old or not and the hammer doesn't look quite right to me to be an old one. However, even the best of that type of pistol wasn't what one could consider a quality piece. I'd have to see it in person and even then it could well be speculation on my part.

Wirnsberger's does not show that stamp as a proof mark in any of the European country's listed therin. Griz could well be correct in that it is simply a makers stamp or perhaps just the maker of the barrel. As for the gun itself it's basically a "last line of defense" pistol. I've always heard them referred to as "Queen Anne screw guns" because on many the barrel unscrewed to load. That one appears to be a muzzleloader. In short, beats me!!!
 
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Look at the hammer and trigger. Are the dots casting sprues? Is the trigger guard sheet metal? If the pictures were better and from different angles we could tell more.
 

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I've looked at this pistol until I'm blue in the face. I have come to the conclusion and opinion it is a modern reproduction. One can see the screw in the grip, at the tail end of the grip strap and it looks perfect. I don't believe the grip shows enough wear to be as old as it should be, the muzzle is still very sharp, not rounded off as most originals are. As Old guns mentioned the hammer and trigger appear to be castings. I cannot account for the pitting on the barrel and receiver but it doesn't take long for a gun to corrode to that level.

I want to emphasize the above is only my opinion derived from a few internet pictures and is worth what you paid for it.
 

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Hawg your picture is almost an exact match. Even the trigger seems to have the same marks. This is where pictures can not be trusted. What look like casting sprues may be punch marks used for keeping the parts together. I would have to say with Hawg's added evidence the gun most likely is old but without better pictures it cant be said for certain. As for the proof I have seen it discussed before but I can't remember the final outcome. It is not a well known mark.
 

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I was wondering when someone would get around to the possible casting marks and trigger guard, Also to my old eyes the pivot screws for the trigger and hammer look more like pressed in " pins " with fake screw heads; But then again , don't know.
 

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I think we've pretty much deduced it is old but it's not French. It would have the St. Etienne proof mark if it was. Probably a knock off from who knows where.
 

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I can say that according to Wirnsberger's it is neither French nor Spanish.
 

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Sorry Hawg, I left my previous post too open. I meant the mark wasn't a French or Spanish proof mark. I don't know about the gun itself but, proof laws in France go back to 1729 for provisional proof and 1782 for royal proof which I take to be compulsory. That pretty much eliminates France as both dates predate the pictured pistol. Spain's mandated proof law dates from 1844 so Spanish could be a possibility if the gun predates 1844...which seems very unlikely to me. Italian proof did not become compulsory until 1923.

The lack of real proof marks makes me want to change my mind about its age. If it were a modern reproduction from any of the European countries that have made them it seems to me it would have to have a recognizable proof mark, no?
 

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Sorry Hawg, I left my previous post too open. I meant the mark wasn't a French or Spanish proof mark. I don't know about the gun itself but, proof laws in France go back to 1729 for provisional proof and 1782 for royal proof which I take to be compulsory. That pretty much eliminates France as both dates predate the pictured pistol. Spain's mandated proof law dates from 1844 so Spanish could be a possibility if the gun predates 1844...which seems very unlikely to me. Italian proof did not become compulsory until 1923.

The lack of real proof marks makes me want to change my mind about its age. If it were a modern reproduction from any of the European countries that have made them it seems to me it would have to have a recognizable proof mark, no?

You are correct sir. I may not have been clear myself. I don't think the gun is French but is a copy of a French gun. Unless somebody can ID the mark on it we'll likely never know where it was made.
 
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