I Wuundur..... ( 1 2 )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ruffitt, Feb 27, 2003.

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  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt Guest

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    LIKTOSHOOT
    (9/24/01 7:25:39 pm)
    I Wuundur.....
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    I have been hearing that there is a great fever brewing in the streets and in Congress to allow pilots to now be armed. This is fueled by, feelings on the shirt sleeves of those touchy-feely types of folks and I have a question.

    " I Wuundur" if say about 300 of these terrorist in small groups had entered several small towns, cities.....being very well armed and began hosing down civilians in the streets, say around the same numbers as the WTC; Would we be arming citizens as fast???

    It would not have been any harder to kill that many that way and would have had, even more effect. Real war in our very own streets......WHAT`CHA THINK??

    Would we be carrying?????????????????????
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    warpig883
    (9/24/01 7:36:30 pm)
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    I always have a gun at least in the vehicle if not on me. Everyone who can carry should.
    I fear we have awaked a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve. Jap. Admiral Yamamota directly after Pearl Harbor.

    Black Gun

    (9/24/01 7:48:21 pm)
    Re: I Wuundur.....
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    Piggy, is that a pistol in your pocket or are just just happy to see us?
    rules for survival: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Squeeze
    BlackGUN

    Edited by: BlackGun at: 9/24/01 8:49:15 pm

    warpig883
    (9/24/01 8:00:42 pm)
    Re: I Wuundur.....
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    Uhhhhhh it's not a pistol. Would definately have to classify it as a long gun.
    I fear we have awaked a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve. Jap. Admiral Yamamota directly after Pearl Harbor.

    the real fredneck
    (9/24/01 8:08:58 pm)
    Re: I Wuundur.....
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    don't you mean a crew served weapon system?

    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 587
    (9/24/01 8:12:57 pm)
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    One man loading, but a couple is best for unloading. Groups would even work but has to be ok'd by the Platoon SGT. But be careful cause she is meaner than a dog shitein tacks.
    I fear we have awaked a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve. Jap. Admiral Yamamota directly after Pearl Harbor.

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 2315
    (9/24/01 9:59:45 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: I Wuundur.....
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    Good point LTS, I'll bet if that had happened
    the carry laws would be in affect almost everywhere.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    KimberRuger
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 78
    (9/25/01 10:12:06 am)
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    If that happened in NY oh Hillary Dillary would say something like:

    "Don't you see ? That's why no-one should be allowed to have guns - look at all the people the guns killed !!!!!!!"


    Unfortunately, I honestly believe that would be her response. I don't think she'd be alone either. In fact, I think she's so friggin anti-gun, that if she saw a terrorist stopped in his tracks by Joe Citizen's LEGAL .45, she'd still argue that Joe shouldn't have had the gun in the first place.





    Patrick

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1636
    (9/25/01 10:12:52 am)
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    .45 in the car, the takedown '97 riot in the M60 spare barrel bag in the trunk, with adequate supplies of slug, 00B, and #6 Bird....
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    gpostal
    Moderator
    Posts: 794
    (9/25/01 10:56:05 am)
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    i saw a opponent to pilots having guns already on the news today , "why should the responsibility lay on the pilot" ,DUH!!! he is ultimately in charge of the plane

    i also saw a opponent to locking the cockpit ,"what incase there is a medical emergency" ,

    i think the pilot and co-pilot should be armed with a .45 ,loaded with safety slugs and internal lasers

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1640
    (9/25/01 11:09:59 am)
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    Yeah, I've already heard a naysayer about skymarshals too..."What if they "fake" a disturbance to make him make a move, then jump him and take his weapon?

    I'm sure they'd train for this possibility, and even if they did, he would (should?)STILL be the only one with a gun...

    I just hope they have more gun than what they carried in the 70s, the 5 shot Airweights with the non-reloadable plastic cylinders in powder puff .38, so they wouldn't penetrate the skin and depressurize the aircraft...heck, somebody sees those orange cylinders today and they'll think it's a TOY...

    What do the Israelis carry? Something tells me they carry full house 9mms and say they'll worry about depressure later....
    I'm so PROUD to be an AMERICAN...

    southernfreedom
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 111
    (9/25/01 1:24:35 pm)
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    The few internet surveys I've seen say it is 3:1 in favor of allowing
    pilots to carry. I really think anyone opposed to it is either ignorant or just plain stupid
    or a control freak........or maybe a commie!!


    bondai
    Moderator
    Posts: 566
    (9/25/01 1:36:07 pm)
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    I don't understand why there is so much debate about this. The FAA already has the authority to allow aircrew members to arm themselves. FAR 108.11 all they need is the training.







    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2358
    (9/25/01 2:17:42 pm)
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    CALL ME A COMMIE!!!! NO PILOTS WITH GUNS! STUPID IDEA!
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    southernfreedom
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 112
    (9/25/01 2:18:50 pm)
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    bondai: Well, that is true for the next 60 days at which time that
    regulation expires.
    But the real problem is the airlines will not allow their pilots to carry guns regardless of
    whether the FAA allows it. Since most politicians are wimps my prediction is they will do
    nothing to force the airlines to allow their pilots to carry firearms.

    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 201
    (9/25/01 3:11:36 pm)
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    Re: LTS

    You are a nice person, not a commie.

    However, it is difficult to understand why a pilot that is in charge of the operation of a heavy aircraft full of people and fuel, that can be used as a guided missle capable of destroying thousands of people and 40 billion dollars worth of property, can not be trusted with a firearm with which to help protect us all from possible terrorists.

    If these guys are not responsible people and good guys, then there are none.

    Congress could override any prohibition against firearms imposed by an airline.

    I am very much in favor the proposal to allow pilots to carry weapons in the cockpit.


    KimberRuger
    (9/25/01 3:52:19 pm)

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    I have a better idea.

    Why not make it mandatory that everyone on every flight is issued a stun gun ?

    Isolate the electronic systems of the plane and issue everyone a zapper. The terrorists can't watch everyone, which would mean someone would have a chance.


    I'd say give them all low powered 9's or .45's, but if you made the round just hot enough to drop a bad guy, you'd have the potential of hurting bystanders, so that doesn't seem to be a good option.


    Another thought that I had was sort of a one-two punch. 1) Put a knock out gas of some sort in a dispenser vent which the pilot could discharge. (OK I hear the nay-sayers now - "the terrorists would simply wear gas masks) which leads to 2) Install some kind of laser device to cut the muthers in half. Honest Joes and Janes would be unconcious from the gas, the only people standing would be those with gas masks - cut them in half with the laser.

    Sci-Fi ? Yeah, I guess, but I'd be willing to bet that the technology exists - it just wouldn't be cost effective for the airlines to implement such a system if the government released it to the commercial airflight industry.




    Patrick

    AGunguy
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 351
    (9/25/01 4:11:54 pm)
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    Seems to me we have not heard one word from the big aircraft industries on methods of containing terriost on board the aircraft. Special paneling shielding around the pilot cabin door and walls, gunports like armored cars to fire on the villians with either special glaser slugs, or hit them with laser guns from gun ports in the shielded cabin door area.

    Then the armed copilot or captain can contain any other terriost in the passenger compartment with either electronic taser weapons, or a knockout dart or net gun to disable them.

    These are just some crazy ideas that will never be implimented in airline aircraft.

    GG

    gpostal
    Moderator
    Posts: 798
    (9/25/01 5:48:41 pm)
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    stun guns are absolutely worthless

    i have ruined a couple of them demonstrating that point ,i can show anyone that a stun gun is useless they are a good scare if you never have been stunned by one ,i used to have one installed in a bar stool a drunk buddy of mine would pass out in and turn it on ,it would make him move a little {sounds cruel but had to be there}

    they only work on the muscle they are touching ,tasers can be pulled out ,the other you must be close enough to touch some one ,even then they don't do enough for anything {only in Hollywood do they knock someone out}

    warpig883
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 595
    (9/25/01 6:44:15 pm)
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    My brother got a shock collar on a drunken friend of his one time. Every time he would put his hands towards his neck he would get shocked. Shocked so bad it would drop him to his knees. Very cruel but the funniest damn thing I had ever seen.
    I fear we have awaked a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve. Jap. Admiral Yamamota directly after Pearl Harbor.

    KimberRuger
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 82
    (9/25/01 6:45:45 pm)
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    Thanks GP .... I never knew that.

    You mean the Hollywood where handguns have no recoil ? The Hollywood where (this cracks me up) where a car door actually stops a bullet ? Where the goodguy can drop the badguy from across the street and on the fifth floor with a 9mm and while dodging shot after shot from the BG's sniper rifle ? That's the Hollywood where stungun type gizmos are effective ?


    Oh well, it was a thought.



    Patrick

    hammer4nc
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 84
    (9/25/01 6:50:56 pm)
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    Liktoshoot,

    Why do you think armed pilots is such a bad idea...at one time (maybe not so much now) most of the commercial pilots were military trained, more likely to be firearms skilled. Or, are you stirring the pooty pot? Did y'all hear that in the hijacked plane that crashed in Pa, one stewardess may have used hot coffee pot to dump on the BG...resourceful, but sad SHE wasn't armed!

    The news reported one company selling special frangible rounds, that might work well in an airplane...

    Here's a little story...I was in the local pawn shop the other day, shooting the breeze with the owner. A couple of well, lets say "questionable", characters (I don't recognize all the gang clothing accessories, though?) came in...the owner open carries a pistol, but his employees don't. Well, they apparently had an alert "keyword" worked out, the employees fanned out, and had their hands on hidden 12-gauges inside of 10 seconds, everyone calm. Nothing ever happened, but the reason I mention it is I felt quite safe...if a couple of NC farm boys can set up a defense routine like that, to protect their store, surely airlines and trained pilots can, too. Just my 2 cents...

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2360
    (9/26/01 7:25:14 am)
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    4nc, well it may appear that I "could" be stirring the pot, but sometimes you never know. I never said I was against it, just think it is another shirtsleeve feel good ploy.......very simular to using children to further the gun issue.

    Lets just look at some of the problems. I like the fact that they always mention that most pilots are military trained, that is a very misleading statement......as many of those are retiring or have retired. The biggest influx of military pilots came from the Vietnam era, hence are on their way out and sad to say aging for this type of action. Desert Storm produced very few to the commercial market. This is just a way to further the cause......they have military training, when?, 35 years ago; sorry the edge may have been lost and since when did they train them in up close killing back then. If memory serves me right, it was to evade and not to fight.

    In the days of Sky Marshals, consider this. Better than 95% of those who applied for that calling failed the shooting part of the course and these were trained military and law enforcement, with many prior years behind them. This is a high stress combat training in very tight and confined area.

    Now you are going to ask the pilots, who already go through a battery of mental and physical test to stay in the air, to now add another stress factor to their duty and this type of training takes a special mentality. Are we short sighted here?, I think so.......do you think the terrorist would now after being made aware of this would enter the cockpit by himself......myself with this known would use a hostage as a shield......now you are asking the pilot or co-pilot to negociate a plane and a hostage or do you just shoot the hostage and the terrorist and be done with it?????

    When and where are pilots going to get this training and how much time and training are they going to get, how often will they train???? We already know that police cannot hit BG`s at 5-7feet as they poor rounds out, and they train(?) Maybe I`m just missing the emotion part or not falling for it. There is more that just giving the pilots a gun and feeling safe again. That dog, just doesn`t hunt for me. Feels good to say it "Arm Pilots", but as I look at the whole picture.....it gives me little relief, but I guess knowning all that is involved in this thing by me, is not how the uneducated layman would view this.[ By this I mean folks who really don`t know about what this will really take to acomplish.....Joe Blow on the street with no firearms knowledge would say.....great idea and make us safe] Maybe I just think to much..............................LTS
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    gpostal
    Moderator
    Posts: 800
    (9/26/01 7:59:30 am)
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    where did you copy that ? lts well written

    KimberRuger
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 85
    (9/26/01 9:10:04 am)
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    Hey Hammer4NC - where in NC are you ? Email me if you get a minute ....... (the following occured in my favorite gun center just outside Charlotte):


    The gun shop I regularly visit and deal with usually has 3 or 4 employees on duty. All of whom are armed - usually with a backup as well. One night, just before closing, a bunch ( 5 or 6) "less desirables" came in and split up. One stayed pretty close to the door, one by the register, another by one of the display cases, and the rest between the aisles. It looked obvious what their intentions were, and I could see the awareness of everyone there had increased. Another customer (a regular) and myself were the only "legitmate" customers in there.

    The "nogoodniks" milled about nervously for about 10 minutes, then decided to simply leave. We watched on the closed circuit camera that is pointed to the parking lot as they got in their cars and left.

    Nothing happened thankfully. But the whole thing left me a bit rattled - I was sure something was going to hit the proverbial fan.




    Patrick

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2365
    (9/26/01 9:29:58 am)
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    Dang! Postal.....I just thought it was a brain fart, I have them every now and again.
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......
     
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