Identification Help

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by Jaxson Boyd, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Jaxson Boyd

    Jaxson Boyd New Member

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    Hello all. The name is Jaxson from St. Johns, Newfoundland. I'm new to the whole 'old firearms' thing. Recently, I found this little gem at an antique shop and I've been having trouble trying to identify it.

    Here is what I know about it at this time.

    Markings include a number on the side of the rifle near the cocking handle(?). The marking is 859 (Photo Below). The next markings are on the barrel. They might be a makers marking or something. I'm not sure. Above that, there is the word 'London'.

    I know that is a percussion cap, not a flintlock system. Conversions seem pretty common from what I have seen, so it could be converted.

    The barrel length from beginning to end is 40 inches. Overall length is 55 inches maybe. I'm checking with a small ruler. Its all I have at this time. The wood extends from the stock to about 10 inches down the barrel.

    Somebody said that it may be a percussion shotgun too. Could be this instead of a musket.

    if there are any questions, feel free to ask them. I will attach what photos I have to the post. If you guys want any more, feel free to ask for them. musket 1.jpg musket 2.jpg musket 3.jpg musket 4.jpg musket 5.jpg
     
  2. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    Where's Griz? I think he's going to need a better picture of the firearm in its entirety and any proof marks if you can find any.

    That big dip in the lock just beneath the snail makes me think the lock was originally flint. The trigger guard and hammer look military to me. It appears to me to be put together from a few different guns but coming from me, take that with a grain of salt.

    Oh, and welcome to the forum!!! Good place to be!
     
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  3. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Sharps, I'm in the same boat as you on this one, I believe it to be a converted flintlock built using at least some recycled military parts. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say the lock and trigger guard are from an 1830's era U.S. Springfield or contract musket.
     
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  4. Jaxson Boyd

    Jaxson Boyd New Member

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    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the help so far. I can get you a few photos when I get off of work tonight. I've been scouring the internet looking for photos of this somewhere but I cant find any so that backs up what you are saying about it being built from multiple parts. Like I said, I'll try and get some more photos of anything I can find on it after work.
     
  5. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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  6. Jaxson Boyd

    Jaxson Boyd New Member

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    Bore size in mm is 16 on the inside and roughly 19 including the metal of the barrel.

    I can't seem to get my camera to take a photo that isn't too large. I will try again later. I can definitely see the resemblance of the trigger guard assembly though. Could it be that I have a completely unique piece I wonder?
     
  7. Jaxson Boyd

    Jaxson Boyd New Member

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    Also, while inspecting the musket further, I found what could possibly be a design on the barrel at the beginning of it. I'll see if my phone will take a good photo of it. It is worn but could be something. 15029093308471285294949.jpg
     
  8. Jaxson Boyd

    Jaxson Boyd New Member

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    Another marking on the underside 1502909531477-1919466824.jpg

    I've taken s very high grit sandpaper to the rusty areas to expose possible markings. I found this one too 15029099735062136128230.jpg
    Could be nothing but its worth posting
     
  9. Jaxson Boyd

    Jaxson Boyd New Member

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    But wait! There's more!

    On the butt plate of the rifle, I found some markings too. Rough to read unless you have the right light but I can definitely make out 26.5, a line, and under that line, there is a 7.2. Have a look. Also, could that be something on the top above the nails?
     

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  10. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    The side plate and butt plate look as if they came from a musket also. Beyond that I'm afraid I'm of no help.
     
  11. Firpo

    Firpo Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Many a firearm has been violated by a person with good intentions and a piece of sandpaper. For future reference you never want to use sandpaper to clean up an old gun. It's a good way to turn one that's worth $3000 to being worth $300.
     
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  12. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    My best guess is some one cobbled together a working shotgun from an old Springfield musket and some parts from a 20 bore London made fowler.

    And yes it is quite rare and unique in that there most likely isn't another Frankengun that has been cobbled together by 1860's Bubba using the same combination of recycled parts.

    Unfortunately rare and unique doesn't mean the same thing as valuable and collectable.
     
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  13. Grayrock Volunteer

    Grayrock Volunteer Member

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    This gun is a boogered up Austrian M1854 "Lorenz" rifle-musket with a British shotgun barrel. The stock has been cut and sanded changing the profile of the butt and removing the sharp edges of the lock flats.
     
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  14. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo! You've identified the right donor musket, good eye. The thing was too cobbled up for my untrained eye to figure out what it used to be.

    Grayrock, correct me if I'm wrong but the '859' on the lock plate means 1859 was it's production date.
     

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  15. Grayrock Volunteer

    Grayrock Volunteer Member

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    That's right on the money. The Austrian's used an abbreviated year date and dropped the 1 from the beginning of the year of manufacture stamping. This example was indeed manufactured in 1859. The lock also has a small imperial eagle at its rear.
     
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