If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Part 2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 7, 2003.

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  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5476
    (12/18/02 10:16:24 am)
    Reply
    If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Part 2
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    The old thread was starting to wander and get very long so it was decided to start fresh.

    The poll in the original thread ended up as follows

    I would abide 6 / 9.2%

    I would illegally stash my firearms 20 / 30.8%

    I would turn-in some and illegally stash the rest 39 / 60.0%

    Please continue and remember to keep it clean

    In 49 states ignorance is a crime. In the other one it is bliss.

    Edited by: warpig883 at: 12/18/02 10:18:44 am


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 701
    (12/18/02 10:42:06 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Dang it, how are we going to reach 1000 posts on that thread if you go and start a Part 2?
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2913
    (12/18/02 11:09:04 am)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Heh heh, if you was a newbie would you look at how many post lay ahead for them to read.

    GG


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5481
    (12/18/02 11:09:19 am)
    Reply
    Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    When they get that long some people have trouble getting all of it to load for them.

    Just for the record, I do not plan of giving up any firearms.

    I wonder how many Australians did not comply?
    In 49 states ignorance is a crime. In the other one it is bliss.


    deadeye006
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 57
    (12/18/02 5:31:46 pm)
    Reply W
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    Wow, I didn't expect my poll to get so many replies . I guess it's always the controversial stuff that creates the most conversation. By the way, I noticed that this situation is actually occuring to a certain extent. Recently, the Ohio State gov't decided to start a law that would ban all "assault weapons" in the city of Youngstown, Ohio, which is just north of my town of Boardman! They say if it passes it will go into effect in 30 days. This is too close to home... I don't like this.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 711
    (12/18/02 5:41:31 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: W
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    Dang, I would expect that out of a bunch of pinko Commie Kalifornians. But in the Heartland?

    Not long now, 'til the rebellion comes....

    Got ammo?
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    Packet
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (12/18/02 7:11:48 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    None of the poll questions apply to me as I would not voluntarily turn in or hide any of my firearms. The Constitution recognizes and guarantees our right to keep and bear arms as a "God given" right. The government can demand all they want, and I shall disobey as thery have no right to take anything from me. If I dont fight for this right, which one will be next?


    hammer4nc
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 423
    (12/18/02 8:31:19 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    One concept expressed in "part 1" was the seeming overwhelming power of "big brother" to monitor our every action, and to silence or arrest dissidents, at will. This, I take issue with. Keeping one's powder dry is good advice, cowering in fear, no.

    An optimistic scenario was aptly portrayed in the novel "Unintended Consequences", by John Ross (check out tff test forum). I say optimistic for the following reasons:

    1. the book highlighted the power of a small, motivated group to ultimately turn back opressive laws; some references to how a tiny, ill armed group such as the IRA (when compared to American gun owners), could prosecute their cause for such a long time.

    2. In the book, the objective was achieved without overthrowing the entire government; only the rogue agency was re-adjusted.

    3. The book portrayed the importance of communication, i.e., winning the "information war" was vital , in garnering public support for what was radical action.

    4. The book pointed out that the government opressors are like bullys everywhere...all bluster, but when their own safety is really, truly on the line, they run for cover.

    Pretty powerful stuff.

    *Edit* Oh, I forgot to mention that the book presents a striking picture of the development of US gun control laws of the last century. This may be its biggest contribution. I can say that ANY gun nut (a term used in admiration) will be changed by reading it.

    Edited by: hammer4nc at: 12/18/02 8:58:41 pm


    Lizard Lips
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (12/18/02 10:20:00 pm)
    Reply Say what?
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    I have read Mr. Ross' book twice, and fail to see the connection between it, and calling Americans gun nuts.

    In the book, I learned of the bonus march, which I had NEVER heard about, and the battle of Athens, which I am sure, along with the Bonus Army march, the vast majority of Americans have NEVER heard about.


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2918
    (12/19/02 12:05:35 am)
    Reply Re: Say what?
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    I've heard about the bonus march, then I'm older than dirt.

    GG


    majormagnum
    Member
    Posts: 11
    (12/19/02 12:27:42 am)
    Reply R
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    Edited by: majormagnum at: 1/1/03 11:47:52 pm


    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 6706
    (12/19/02 7:54:06 am)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Funny, I don`t see anyone complaining about the New Jersey law that was passed just days ago, all handguns must have "smart technology" all others will be banned and removed from sales, now let me ask you this. Just how many smart pistols are out there right now???? This effectively removes handguns from being sold state-wide, hows that for a ban?????

    LTS


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 714
    (12/19/02 8:37:37 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    LTS, I did see that story at www.nj.com/news/expressti...523020.xml .

    I'm not yet convinced that this will even stand. Aside from the obvious Constitutional issues, it also introduces some unfair business practices. This technology is not yet readily available (and nobody can even say whether it will work or not). So whoever gets it into production first has a monopoly on the NJ gun market. I'm fairly certain this bill will have to be adjusted or struck down.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    308bolt
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (12/19/02 10:20:28 am)
    Reply Thanks Warpig
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    Thanks for putting this thread back on track.
    I saw the percentage statistics but I was wondering how many people responded to the original poll.


    ibtrukn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 1529
    (12/19/02 1:55:26 pm)
    Reply Re: Thanks Warpig
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    LTS yeah they did pass that, CONTINGENT on the ability of the manufacturers to produce such a thing. IT aint bin invented yet. An the bill states 3 years after it comes into being. What will happen? Stay tuned. U were hoarding .17 HMR's? Consider puting away a nice stock of S&W model 10's and the like. Think what it will do to the price of used !!
    IB says "stick with me an y'all wear diamonds big as horse turds" an thas no BS.......honest

    Scenario: first cop goes down, his buddy reaches for his gun an WHAT HAPPENS?? buddies gun misfires, second gun is useless.
    Page two, different cast: goernor's mansion is invaded he goes down, wife daughter mother sister sweetie reaches for gun WHAT HAPPENS?? governor sees his loved one raped tortured maimed killed.
    Page three----U fill in the next scene.

    Maybe a little farfetched?? IB dont think so, but what does a broken down x dubblecluttcher know??

    Edited by: ibtrukn at: 12/19/02 1:57:38 pm


    SDhunter
    Member
    Posts: 10
    (1/2/03 12:04:00 am)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    I'd stash all of my weapons.

    "From my cold dead hands" You know the saying


    reedbuster
    V.I.P. Forum Host
    Posts: 433
    (1/2/03 12:53:39 am)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    I'd cry. cause you caint get no duks with duc - tape.
    Browning-The Best There Is.


    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 414
    (1/2/03 3:42:08 am)
    Reply
    Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Quote:
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    Dang, I would expect that out of a bunch of pinko Commie Kalifornians. But in the Heartland?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As a pinko commie Kalifornian, I have to point out my Democrat / Liberal / Socialistic elected officials can pass whatever dumbass law they care to try, but the vast majority of owners are refusing to comply -

    Quote:
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    There has also been substantial resistance to laws that require registration of so-called assault weapons. California was the first state to pass a ban on military-style semiautomatics. [115] The California law requires *459 mandatory registration of all such weapons owned prior to the enactment of the ban. [116] A group called Gun Owners React openly called for those who owned such arms to disobey the registration requirement. [117] Nearly 90% of the approximately 300,000 assault weapon owners in California refused to register their weapons. [118] A few months later, Denver passed a similar ordinance. [119] Only 1% of the estimated 10,000 assault weapons in that jurisdiction were ever registered. [12 Other municipalities that have passed similar ordinances have seen about the same percentage of guns registered. [121] New Jersey was the next state to enact an assault weapon ban. [122] Out of the 100,000 to 300,000 assault weapons in that state, 947 were registered, an additional 888 were rendered inoperable, and 4 were turned over to the authorities. [123]

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    Now if we can just oust Boxer and Feinstein...

    Rich


    308bolt
    Member
    Posts: 35
    (1/2/03 9:16:25 am)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    I once heard the California assault rifle ban described as the largest case of civil disobedience since the South rose in rebellion. The liberal anti-gunners don't want that advertised. I tend to use quotes in order to illustrate or reinforce my point and there is one that I remembered from the California ban that I tried to find. Sadly I couldn't find it on the W.W.W. which tells me just how poor we are at recording the Second Amendment struggle and how good the antis are at obscuring anything that reinforces our point.
    What the man said was: "I refuse to be made a felon by the stroke of a pen." If I'm going to be a felon I'll earn it. (I had to ad lib the last part but it's close to the original.)


    mgjohn
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/2/03 10:54:39 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Got a few cheap single shot shotguns that I might use as bait.

    Guess that they will have to come and get them if they want them. Not giving any away for free,,,,,


    hammer4nc
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 438
    (1/18/03 11:08:42 am)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    content, content, content...

    er, I mean firearms, firearms, firearms!!!


    rhinoman
    Member
    Posts: 47
    (1/18/03 12:48:41 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    In Ma THEY know what you have for guns. Turning in some and keeping the "others" isn't really an option. All "private sales must go through a firearms dealer. It's not difficult to assemble a list of firearms an individual owns, knock on your front door "Mr. so and so we'll have your......"
    I don't know what I'd do. We as firearms owners need to "cut them off at the pass" before it ever gets to that.
    The fight for freedom is not fought overseas in distant lands with guns, missles and bombs. It is fought here with words, pen and paper and I fear, we are loosing it.


    armedandsafe
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (1/18/03 6:04:29 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    I'd probably die when they came to collect.

    Armed and Safe - not just a theory


    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 133
    (1/18/03 8:18:59 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    "I'd probably die when they came to collect."

    I hate to pick on just one so don't take it personal but this statement is bandied about like popcorn on every gun board.

    How about cutting the B--- s---. I'd hand them everthing they ask for and so would you, just like 99.99% of everyone else in this country.

    They'll call for them to be registered first and 90% will comply.

    Then they won't come after them, They'll ORDER you to bring them in, AND YOU WILL. At least 90% of the 90% will.

    Next they will have all kinds or threats and laws passed promising punishment for the remaining 10% of the 90% and those will all pass with out a whimper because "What do I care they allready have mine."

    Next they will offer amnesty to those holding out and half of them will jump at the chance to get out of a losing situation.

    The last thing they will do is come to your house to get the guns they have on the list but haven't been turned in. In the unlikely event YOU are one of those LESS than 5% of the population you will then turn them over at the door and beg them not to ruin your life. Cost you your job, your house and your family with jail time or fines.

    The final miniscule amount of problems they have left will be overwhelmed with force and labeled religious wackos, survivalist or what ever the label of the day is at the time. Most likely "domestic terrorist". Kinda fits with the theme of a "never ending war on terrorism" don't ya think?
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--


    ImMrBill
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (1/18/03 9:10:21 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    I still wonder who "they" would be because, there are no boundary lines between pro's and anti's. Would one take up arms against the gov't law enforcement officers when one doesn't know why the neighbor is having their guns confiscated. One isn't sure why or what's going on and not allowed to investigate or inquire while it occurs. The next night the blitz is on them.
    Although I don't condone terrorists, I could foresee a scenario similar to that which is happening in Palestine and or Czechoslovakia in the '50's. Would any of you be able to stop a tank approaching your home, at two in the morning? Do you have centuries around your homes? Would you have an inside agent for intelligence to determine where the next target for a blitz would be. In other words we gun owners aren't organized as a military unit and our solidarity and strength is in our political clout. A different type of combat.
    Try this for fun, ask a few law enforcement officers and military personnel how they would respond if they were ordered to conduct full scale civilian firearms confiscations. Then again, would they even be informed why they are being ordered to undertake the individual seizure tasks? Would foreign UN forces be involved? I would think so.
    Me, I'd like to see a boarder where the anti's can congregate, live and pursue their happiness on one side of the line and the pro's can congregate, live and pursue happiness on the other. Segregation I believe it's called. Or Succession. Oooo, Not a good thing. Since we all have to live together, where does the line get drawn, around our property perimeter? If one doesn't own property, then what?
    I like the friendly boarder between Canada and the US and think it might make for a splendid boarder. How about east and west by the Mississippi? The antis can all move to one side and the pro's can move to the other and no complaining when on the others turf. Just have 'em send us their over abundunce of wild game, if they don't pave and cement their side over.

    No, I wouldn't voluntarily surrender mine and heaven forbid I'd be left breathing and not restrained. I'd get a rock and a stick and maybe some twine. Not a pleasant thought at all.

    By the way, I currently live in this socialist republic of Kalifornia and am considering a retreat across it's boarder. Well what do you know, there's that 'boarder' thing again. Get the point?
    Bill


    armedandsafe
    Member
    Posts: 18
    (1/18/03 10:03:21 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Well, I got the immediate response I expected. The one following that, however, I did not expect to show up quite so soon. Thank you, both, gentlemen.
    MrBill: I got out of PRK less than 5 years ago. Smartest move I ever made.

    Armed and Safe - not just a theory


    ImMrBill
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (1/18/03 11:57:17 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    I feel like I'm one of the 10% of the 30% of the hold outs that has stuck around the PRK to long. The battle has been lost here. Some just don't know it yet.
    In which direction did you escape in? Right now an employment opportunity has me looking to the North very close to the Canadian border.
    Bill


    armedandsafe
    Member
    Posts: 21
    (1/19/03 2:23:04 pm)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    I went to SOCAL from central WA in the late '70s, to work with a small company designing desktop computers. Returned to central WA in '98 to be where my kids live in and around Moses Lake. Now, all but one of the kids has moved away from me. And, he's talking about moving. Are they trying to tell me something?

    Drop me a line by email, if you want.

    Armed and Safe - not just a theory


    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 135
    (1/20/03 3:04:17 am)
    Reply Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Ok let's take it to the next step since I've had this exact conversation many times with people in person.

    To the guys who think they will be the ones to hold out. The ones who are going to risk everything, go to war, over that $100 raven POS or what ever the bad guys want first.

    What have you done in the past year to STOP the thing from happening you say you would KILL your fellow citizens or neighbors for rather than give up?

    When this question is ask in a group of 5 or 6 and they are know to each other, there is a sudden hem haw, shuffle feet and staring at the ground. That's when I know their bluff is called and lay it to their hide.

    Oh you'll kill your brother in law the Sherriff when they come to get that pea shooter but are you a member of the NRA now?
    Common answere, "Well I don't want to be on no lists and besides they spend more money asking for more money than they do on gun laws."

    Well just what have you done to sway the opinion of your elected representatives?
    Ans, "Well I voted once."

    How'd ya know who to vote for?
    Well they always have that NRA thing tacked up to the wall.

    Oh yeah, you're a real hellion when it comes to defending your 2nd amendment rights. I bet when they knock on the door you'll jump right off that couch and give 'em a piece of your mind. As yer hand'n them your guns during commercial.

    Of course we know that scenario won't hold true for our dedicated band of political sharks here on the internet. Bet everyone here is a dues pay'n NRA member and lobby's the congress, senate and local officials once a week.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5920
    (1/20/03 10:08:55 am)
    Reply
    Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Will somebody please duct tape my fingers and mouth

    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.

    Edited by: warpig883 at: 1/20/03 10:47:11 am


    boomatic
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 518
    (1/20/03 10:18:08 am)
    Reply
    Re: If the government forced you to turn in your firearms Pa
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    Soory Jack Ryann...your arguement has been declared invalid for the following reasons:

    No Raven costs $100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2003 Rose Bowl Champions!!!!
    Boom-a-tic
    *Ne'er-Do-Well Wannabe Junior Non-Staff Moderator of the Test Forum*
    Progenitor of the Boomatic Plague


    308bolt
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 64
    (1/20/03 10:42:02 am)
    Reply Hey Boomer !
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    What happened?
    Couldn't control that mouse o yours and it clicked on a political thread?
    This stuff disturbs your relaxation, remember?
    I think it's interesting that after any political discussions are asked politely
    to move to "fire for effect", that someone resurrected an old one.
    Kinda' says something about what people are interested in.
    'course we could start doin' a blah, blah, blah about trucks or some such,
    before anyone says anything serious.


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5925
    (1/20/03 10:45:50 am)
    Reply
    Re: Hey Boomer !
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    You are right, sorry. Thing is the mods are supposed to read the forums to make sure every one is behaving. Once in a while Somebody has an opinion posted that really deserves to be chewed up and spit at them. I should have known better.

    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    308bolt
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 65
    (1/20/03 2:11:22 pm)
    Reply Yo Warpig
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    I'd like to discuss this subject with you but
    I don't think that this thread is the proper
    place to do it.
    Any interest?


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5926
    (1/20/03 2:28:36 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Yo Warpig
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    I really prefer to stay out of this topic as it is like kicking a dead horse.

    I don't want my boots to stink

    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    Loki
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 86
    (1/20/03 5:38:27 pm)
    Reply Re: Yo Warpig
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    The venerable warpig wrote

    Quote:
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    I don't want my boots to stink
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    We could all use a good pair of teflon boots from time to time...

    -- Loki


    Smokin Guns
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 680
    (1/20/03 6:06:13 pm)
    Reply Well Now!
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    Now that we have all agreed to disagree...and Warpig's boots is a stinkin'(how come ya wanna kick dead horses?) and (how come theres dead horses lying around)...(this is meant to be thought provoking)...(maybe not)...I am gonna post a gun question here in a new post and sure could use some experience to help me out....


    Chas
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 133
    (1/20/03 6:10:53 pm)
    Reply horse
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    One man's dead horse is another man's soap

    Chuck

    "Buzzards gotta eat, same as the worms" (Josie Wales)


    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 139
    (1/22/03 2:13:08 am)
    Reply Re: horse
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    Sorry it got me "stomp'n my feet a little". It just rubs me to hear this over and over at work. Same guy has all kinds of big talk but too scared of being on a list to join the NRA. Two minutes later he's going to move to Idaho but the NRA hounds him for too much money. By the end of the conversation "we should shoot those traitors in Washington" but he doesn't have time to make a call to his representatives, vote, or write a letter.

    Well guess I better stop here before I get wound up again.
    --44 mag, when you're ready to get serious--


    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3666
    (1/22/03 7:47:21 am)
    Reply Re: horse
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    Yyyyuuummmmmyyyy - dead horse! I would like ta have a big ol' steak offn' that carcass if ya don't mind.


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3141
    (1/22/03 8:18:09 am)
    Reply Re: horse
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    Isn't that a dead horses patute we voted into office. Isn't he helping to strip our fundalmental rights slowly but surely...him and the rest of the politicos that are running the gubberment.

    Got to find out where Debo is holded up, may have make reservations.

    GG
     
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