Info needed on Ivor Johnson revolver operation-how to check if working

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Mark Stratton, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. Mark Stratton

    Mark Stratton New Member

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    Inherited Ivor Johnson safety hammerless revolver serial #8973 and not sure if it is operational. What to do to check it out?. One gun shop wasn't familiar and not certain if it's doing all that it should. This model has "Patent June 16.96 AUC25" on bottom of handle on frame. 3" barrel, overall length 6.5 and in very good shape, chrome or nickel plated. Is there any one or a shop familiar with these to take it to in the southeast Michigan area? Appreciate any recommendations or information to help out. Thanks. Mark
     

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  2. Kweeksdraw

    Kweeksdraw Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum Mark, I'm sure someone will be along to help soon.
     
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  3. Mark Stratton

    Mark Stratton New Member

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    Thanks, I look forward to it.
     
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  4. Shrek73

    Shrek73 Active Member

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    You have an Iver Johnson 2nd Model Safety Hammerless Automatic Revolver. It was made between 1895 and 1908. Remove the grips and get the full serial number on the left side. It should have a alphabetical prefix.

    It is considered a black powder fame and not safe for modern smokeless ammo.

    What problem are you having with it? The cylinder free spools until you pull the trigger, when it will lock up. Does it not cycle properly?
     
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  5. Mark Stratton

    Mark Stratton New Member

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    Many thanks for info. What was suspect was that it appears it did not have enough force of the firing pin to fire a cartridge when trigger pulled. I took grip off, spring there appears to be complete. Serial number is very faint. Is it safe to say that based on what you've indicated it's functionality is moot point as it should not be fired regardless?
     
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  6. howlnmad

    howlnmad Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    What Shrek was saying is that is was built to withstand the pressure of old black powder cartridges, not the high pressure smokeless cartridges of today.
     
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  7. Shrek73

    Shrek73 Active Member

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    Not sure how he determined there was not enough force on the firing pin. You can still find black powder rounds for these, so if it checks out, there is no reason you cant fire it. Pictures of the mainspring will help. Perhaps someone replaced it with a homemade spring. What caliber is it, I cant tell from the pictures, but could from the serial number.
     
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  8. Mark Stratton

    Mark Stratton New Member

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    It's 32 caliber according to my dad's paperwork. I'll take pictures and post later today. The number we think is the serial from the paperwork is 8973. Is this number complete for a serial #? Thank you both for info.
     
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  9. Mark Stratton

    Mark Stratton New Member

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    Here's photos showing number on the trigger guard that we think is the serial number, patent info and of the spring and firing pin. The problem appears to be that of the firing pin not coming out far enough to fire a cartridge. The barrel rotates when trigger is pressed and the pin moves slightly. The spring appears not to be damaged although its hard to tell if original. The number on left frame under the grip is not legible. Not sure of what to do if anything to sort out its overall functionality. Appreciate any additional insights. Thanks.
     

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  10. Bruce Cunha

    Bruce Cunha Member

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  11. Shrek73

    Shrek73 Active Member

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    Okay, the stamping on the butt indicates it is a 2nd Model 6th Variation made between 1905-1907.

    Looks like someone has removed the firing pin bushing and did not retighten it. You can remove it with a pair if snap ring pliers and see what is going on inside. It is basically a threaded plug and should line up with the contours of the frame.

    It may have the wrong firing pin or the wrong spring. If you remove it, we can try to tell why is going on. The main spring looks fine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  12. Mark Stratton

    Mark Stratton New Member

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    You guys are great...Thanks Shrek73 for the details. Will get a look at things soon. It would be great to know it's in good shape for its next caretaker.
     
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  13. Mark Stratton

    Mark Stratton New Member

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    Still need some help! Having problems getting this operational...gunsmith checked firing pin bushing and lined it up as indicated. His description of what is going on now is as follows...

    "The internal hammer on the gun has a mainspring that contacts a notch in the back of the hammer. When the trigger is pulled back the rear section that contacts the hammer slips off and does not complete the cycle and hammer does not move back. When the mainspring is moved out of the hammer notch and laid to rest above the hammer notch, with some slight pressure the hammer can be pulled back by the trigger and completes the cycle."

    Is this "normal" for this model? Are there parts worn that need to be replaced and what would they be? The spring? What else can we do?
     
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  14. Bruce Cunha

    Bruce Cunha Member

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  15. Shrek73

    Shrek73 Active Member

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    It sounds like the mainspring was not properly fitted. Here is a picture of the action of a 2nd Model Hammerless. They used two different hammers in the 2nd Model Hammerless, so yours may look slightly different than the one in the photo.

    http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1068730.htm

    http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1068720.htm

    The mainspring needs to be fitted and have a point at the end that engages the notch on the backside of the hammer. It may need to have the tip bent slightly to ensure it stays in contact. Sometimes if the mainspring is too short, it will slip as you mentioned. What does your mainspring look like? It may have a broken tip...
     

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