Info on double barrel shotgun
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I will try that when I get home. Thanks! Will respond with what I find
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Unfortunately someone has devalued the gun significantly....doggone it. I look forward to seeing the proofs! They should be on the barrel flats and water table.
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They are assuredly British proofs. Without getting out my books I'm going to say Birmingham. Someone please correct me if I err.
The gun itself is built on a Henry Jones underlever action that he developed in the mid-1860's. It is an improvement on the earlier French, Lefaucheux, pinfire action developed in the mid to late 1830's. It is black powder proofed...as smokeless was not yet in existence. Before you go buy a bunch of expensive brass hulls check the chambers. 14 gauge was popular around then and that is precisely what it might be.
If you're going to shoot it, after having it thoroughly checked out by a qualified gunsmith, if the firing pin return springs are shot, you can usually replace them with regular ink pen springs. Just cut to length until they're right.
At that time in history the British and German gun trades were similar in that they were largely a cottage industry. I'm confident the few German arms I have that are built on a Jones underlever had the action sourced from Birmingham. Both country's used quality Damascus barrels from Belgium. Not all Belgian Damascus is junk.....though a lot of it certainly is. Britain sourced most of their sporting, repeating actions from Germany.
IF the action is still tight to face and if the barrels are shootable the old gun does still have fairly decent value, even though some dolt cleaned and/or buffed all the value off the action, underlever and locks and, it looks as if the stock has been refinished. As is I would estimate $500 to maybe $1000, depending on the buyer. Prior to being over cleaned that could have easily doubled.
The gun itself is built on a Henry Jones underlever action that he developed in the mid-1860's. It is an improvement on the earlier French, Lefaucheux, pinfire action developed in the mid to late 1830's. It is black powder proofed...as smokeless was not yet in existence. Before you go buy a bunch of expensive brass hulls check the chambers. 14 gauge was popular around then and that is precisely what it might be.
If you're going to shoot it, after having it thoroughly checked out by a qualified gunsmith, if the firing pin return springs are shot, you can usually replace them with regular ink pen springs. Just cut to length until they're right.
At that time in history the British and German gun trades were similar in that they were largely a cottage industry. I'm confident the few German arms I have that are built on a Jones underlever had the action sourced from Birmingham. Both country's used quality Damascus barrels from Belgium. Not all Belgian Damascus is junk.....though a lot of it certainly is. Britain sourced most of their sporting, repeating actions from Germany.
IF the action is still tight to face and if the barrels are shootable the old gun does still have fairly decent value, even though some dolt cleaned and/or buffed all the value off the action, underlever and locks and, it looks as if the stock has been refinished. As is I would estimate $500 to maybe $1000, depending on the buyer. Prior to being over cleaned that could have easily doubled.
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You're welcome too, by the way.
It appears to be British proofed, Birmingham as has been stated, it looks like the 1855-1875 proofs. Note the 14 though, that means “14 bore,” at the time the British only marked the bore, not the chamber, that could well be a 14 gauge (brass is available but it is horendously expensive), but it could also be a 12. During that era the Brits made some 12 gauges with 14 gauge bores, I’m not sure why, but possibly cost saving If I were to guess, or maybe they thought that it was better somehow. Basicly think of it like a modified choke except it is the full length of the bore, which is actually cylinder. More than likely it has a laminated or Damascus barrel as well (probably laminated).
It is not designed for smokeless, black powder only, and since it is a tight bore I would suggest going with light loads.
Who made the locks? It should be engraved on the lock plates. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess W. Richards?
The previous poster was correct that the refinish killed the value. In general you only want to do a refinish if necessary, basically if the old one is a (likely unfireable) mess or a previous refinish job was job was done, and if it is very rare it shouldn’t even be done then.
The maker determines the value.
It is not designed for smokeless, black powder only, and since it is a tight bore I would suggest going with light loads.
Who made the locks? It should be engraved on the lock plates. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess W. Richards?
The previous poster was correct that the refinish killed the value. In general you only want to do a refinish if necessary, basically if the old one is a (likely unfireable) mess or a previous refinish job was job was done, and if it is very rare it shouldn’t even be done then.
The maker determines the value.
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W. Richards on the locks almost always denotes Belgian origin, in their attempt to plagiarize Westley Richards.
Correct, however to muddy the waters a bit, while most “W. Richards” marked shotguns were made by various makers in Belgium for the reason you mentioned, there actually were some made in England as well, about 14 different gunsmiths with the first initial W and last name Richards were operating there at the time, and a few were even in the US, and given the Bitmingham proofs this could well be one of the English ones if it is indeed a W. Richards ad I suspect. Also one of the “W. Richards” is actually still in operation today (and have been since 1780) and are/were a very high end maker, at the time they were in Liverpool but today are in North Yorkshire, here’s there website:W Richards Guns It could well be one of their’s, have to contact them to find out, though I believe (don’t quote me) that all of their‘s should have the Liverpool address on the barrel rib.
Another possibility is William Richards, who I believe was actually in Birmingham at that time.
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It should be on both lock plates.
As I have always said, the British gun trade at that time was as convoluted as the German gun trade. If a fella is a hair puller he can go bald, if he isn't already, trying to figure out who is who....lol!
As I have always said, the British gun trade at that time was as convoluted as the German gun trade. If a fella is a hair puller he can go bald, if he isn't already, trying to figure out who is who....lol!
right, they don't us Westley, bur W. a play on words.
We are talking about the lock plates, not the proof marks. Look at the plates on the side of the shotgun that the hammers are attached to, there should be a name there, what is it?
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It might never have had a name or, whoever buffed the crap out of the lock plates it finished off what little might have been left.
WP could have been the guy who made the barrels or the guy who knitted them together, or both or, a mechanic who fit them to the action or....an in house inspector, who knows? I don't believe that's the initials of the maker but I've been wrong before.
WP could have been the guy who made the barrels or the guy who knitted them together, or both or, a mechanic who fit them to the action or....an in house inspector, who knows? I don't believe that's the initials of the maker but I've been wrong before.
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