Iraq

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 6, 2003.

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  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5694
    (1/1/03 12:15:08 pm)
    Reply
    Iraq
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    Just what will the US do if nothing is found to give us a "good" reason to start a fight. Will GW send us to war without UN approval and no evidence of the weapons of mass destruction?

    What excuse will he use to do it?

    I think there has to be a much better reason to send American soldiers off to die than what I have seen so far.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    JBT1
    Member
    Posts: 13
    (1/1/03 1:16:25 pm)
    Reply Evidence
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    Do you really think that we would have gone this far if we didn't have evidence? As far as the inspection's are concerned...you have to be looking for something in order to find it.


    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5030
    (1/1/03 1:49:20 pm)
    Reply Re: Evidence
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    cides, GW is on a personal mission...


    SDhunter
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (1/1/03 3:17:44 pm)
    Reply Re: Iraq
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    I think they have the evidence.

    Tell me this: The world's superpower says that they are going to come into your country and inspect it for weapons of mass destruction and if you don't comply with the rules set forth by the UN, then we will disarm you ourselves. I think that I would follow the rules, unless I have something to hide................... Ahhh. I'm pretty sure that the man that killed a whole bunch of his own people, innocent women and childeren mind you, has something to hide. I say destroy the bastard.

    Remember people, the United States also carries the role as peace keepers. Some of us may not like it, but that's what we are. I think we should bend over so the rest of the world can kiss our ass. Are we arrogant? Damn right. And there is a reason for it. I guess in a scense you could say that we earned the right to be arrogant.

    KILL Sadam so we can move on with bigger and better things!


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3009
    (1/1/03 3:52:06 pm)
    Reply Re: Iraq
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    Dang, piggy, you having doubts about ole dubya???

    Next thing you know you'll be blaming him for everything...hee hee.

    GG


    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 5034
    (1/1/03 5:38:14 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Iraq
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    AGunguy, I could'nt imagine it... I mean blaming anyone

    Quote:
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    "Tell the gossipers and liars I will see them in the fire" - Johnny Cash, Let the train whistle blow
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    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 773
    (1/1/03 7:45:33 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: Iraq
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    I ain't defending Saddam in any way, shape, form, or fashion. But......

    I don't know who we think we are, trying to tell the rest of the world how to run their affairs. I don't mind stepping in and breaking up a fight (like we did in WWI and WWII). But just exactly what gives us the right to go in and tell Iraq or North Korea that they can't have nukes? Don't get me wrong - I don't want 'em to have nukes. But on whose authority do we violate a sovereign nation? Especially without clear and compelling evidence?

    Is there any difference between that and Uncle Sam coming to your house and telling you that you can't own guns?

    Think before you reply.....
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    MO JENKINS
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 177
    (1/1/03 8:45:14 pm)
    Reply SODOM WHOOSAYIN"
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    Sadaam 'kin go to HELL, an all 'a them others too! But they ain't worth the life of ONE AMERICAN! I say we should stay OUT, until they REALLY start somethin'. And then we should nuke their worthless butts. And nuke Japan and Canada and England too, while we're at it!


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3010
    (1/1/03 8:57:15 pm)
    Reply Re: SODOM WHOOSAYIN"
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    Cripes aw mighty, Mo. You forgot Mexico...

    GG


    SDhunter
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/1/03 8:59:55 pm)
    Reply Re: Iraq
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    You need to look at the history of the country and what they are capable of doing. It's not just that they have nukes. It's what they're likely to do with them and for what reason.

    Don't get soft on us, 1952sniper.

    Jeff


    SDhunter
    Member
    Posts: 7
    (1/1/03 9:07:50 pm)
    Reply Re: SODOM WHOOSAYIN"
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    Mo,

    I'm pretty sure the reasoning is, is to stop him before he does cause a lot of damage and kill a lot MORE people.

    You say: "we should stay out until they really start something."

    You mean like 9/11? Yeah, if they do something like that, then we'll get them.

    This isn't a game. That lousy SOB needs to removed from the face of the earth, now. Not "until they really start something"!!

    Is this a liberal minded forum? If so, Please, except my appology for intruding on your forum. I'll leave now.

    Jeff


    boomatic
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 395
    (1/1/03 9:11:19 pm)
    Reply
    Gee...
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    lots of uninformed blustering going on in here. Always a problem, in my opinion.

    I personally don't have enough info. to make concrete judgements. But, I feel very much like sniper on this one. I have long felt that we overstep our foreign policy/presence on a regular and recurring basis. Defending our rights and our way of life in our territory is one thing...policing the world is entirely another. Providing assistance when asked may be noble, but forcing things upon others is arrogance.

    Arrogance is a sin, period. It is the springboard to catastrophy. Humility and sobriety and hallmarks of all great government.

    But then again, I could be full of (expletive deleted)...by me!!!

    Important Info For ALL Americans
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    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 775
    (1/1/03 10:06:16 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: Gee...
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    Quote:
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    You need to look at the history of the country and what they are capable of doing. It's not just that they have nukes. It's what they're likely to do with them and for what reason.
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    That's exactly my point. I don't believe we have the right, under God or the UN or anybody else, to go starting a war with a sovereign nation just because of what they are "likely" to do with nukes.

    As I've stated before, it's not that I'm unwilling to go to war with Iraq. But it has to be for the right reasons. I don't agree with US policy of butting into everyone's affairs. Who made us the global babysitter? As I recall, we are one of the youngest nations on Earth. And yet we like to sit smugly and dictate to everyone else what they can and can't do.

    If Saddam wants to kill his own people, then IMHO it's up to the people in that region to take care of the problem. We are certainly not doing the world a favor by stepping in and solving their problems for them. All that does is breed resentment from them. That is why we saw 9/11. They (most of the world) hate us! And yet we continue to make the problem worse by butting in and dabbling in affairs that we don't understand and have no right to dabble in.

    I don't promote isolationism. But I am opposed to this constant attitude that we are better than everyone else and that we should force the rest of the world to be like us, using our military might. It is wrong, plain and simple. Yes, you may also that it is wrong to stand idly by and watch Saddam gas his own people. I'm not saying we should do nothing. I'm just saying it's not our place to go start a war over that.

    US policy has been and continues to be intrusive and arrogant. These are not US states; they are not our colonies. We owe them nothing, and they have asked us for nothing. Why do we continue to meddle in their affairs when all it will bring us is more hatred and more terrorist attacks?

    I hope you don't think I'm going soft. And I would disagree with anyone who calls me a liberal or anything like that. I think America is the best place in the world, even though we have some issues of our own that need to be fixed. What I'm saying is that we need to treat other countries with respect and let them handle their own affairs. If there is clear and compelling evidence that there is an immediate threat to us, then I have no problem with swift action. But I just don't see that immediate threat right now.

    Just think what would have happened if we had taken this attitude with Russia in the 50s and 60s. We didn't take them on because we knew we couldn't beat them! And vice versa! So why is it different with Iraq? We're picking on them because we know they are an easy target.

    Sorry for the long rant. I have lots more to say but I'll quit for now.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    boomatic
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 399
    (1/1/03 10:24:46 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Gee...
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    sniper...you talk too much...

    I was jes' stirrin' the coals!

    Important Info For ALL Americans
    Boom-a-tic
    *Ne'er-Do-Well Wannabe Junior Non-Staff Moderator of the Test Forum*


    SDhunter
    Member
    Posts: 8
    (1/1/03 11:18:40 pm)
    Reply Re: Gee...
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    1952sniper says:

    "Yes, you may also that it is wrong to stand idly by and watch Saddam gas his own people. I'm not saying we should do nothing. I'm just saying it's not our place to go start a war over that."

    If you're not say we should do nothing then what should we do? I don't think that you can come up with a logical answer.

    I was sent to Saudi Arabia twice because of this guy. I didn't have any qualms about it. I'd go again in a heart beat if I was still enlisted. I'll bet a high percentage of the military personnel are gung ho and can't wait to get there.


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5702
    (1/1/03 11:19:32 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Gee...
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    GG, I don't agree with everything GW does
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5705
    (1/1/03 11:30:52 pm)
    Reply
    Re: Iraq
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    Quote:
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    I'll bet a high percentage of the military personnel are gung ho and can't wait to get there.
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    Bet you are right on that. When I was in we lived for these kind of big deployments. That is what soldiering is all about.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 776
    (1/2/03 12:09:38 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: Iraq
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    Just because military people are "gung ho" about going to war doesn't make it right. That would be like saying that just because a policeman is excited about the possibility of busting up a few drug pushers, he should be allowed to do it. But hey, I'm glad the military community is excited. At least we know their hearts are in it if we need them to go.

    And you asked what we should do about it. That's a very good question. I see that we've tried economic sanctions with little or no effect. But why not try some "covert ops" inside Iraq? We can start some political unrest, get the people worked up enough to revolt. Or work to get Saddam's own military and/or government working against him. There are all kinds of things we can do to undermine his power without having to spend US money and lose American lives. And when it's all said and done, I think Iraq would be happier if the change had come from the people. The world would be happier too. Nobody likes to be forced into change. It is embarrassing and insulting to the integrity of a people. I'm pretty darn sure our CIA is keen enough to push the right buttons inside Iraq to start some internal fighting. Once we have the ball rolling, all we have to do is sit back and enjoy the show, and steer them in the right direction.

    I'm not saying that's the perfect solution. But it's gotta be better in the long run than landing US troops on Iraqi soil. I guarantee you, when we conclude our war with Iraq, we will look like a bunch of bullies to the rest of the world. They will all be wondering who is next. If we think going to war with Iraq is going to secure the peace and help protect us from future terrorist attacks, we are fools.

    And Boomatic, I think you're absolutely right. I do talk too much.

    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    teehee1
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 438
    (1/2/03 2:25:54 am)
    Reply
    Re: Iraq
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    I don't read any newspapers and I don't watch or listen to the electronic media(some is forced on me on the net) so will one of you who is familiar with the problems(terrorists/guerillas) in the Philippines please enlighten me, thanx, teehee
    Life is not:easy, fair or cheap and sometimes bad things happen to good people..:)


    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 3014
    (1/2/03 10:16:17 am)
    Reply Re: Iraq
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    Piggy, I'se knows you don't...juss funnin ya...again.

    GG


    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1680
    (1/2/03 5:41:12 pm)
    Reply Re: Iraq
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    Here's my "compassionate Conservatism" view on this Iraqi affair -

    After 9/11 our President, speaking for the American people, said we'd go anywhere, anytime to strike at the terrorists, those who supported them and the countries that sheltered them.

    Sadaam Hussien is one of the world's foremost terrortists - he rules by terror, harbors those who attack the US and financially aids terrorists worldwide. Remember his paying suicide bomber's families $50K apiece in Palistine? Abul Natal dying in Baghdad? Establishing training camps for terrorists? You think he isn't slipping monies to Al Queda? Providing equipment and arms?

    I felt thrilled when the CIA took out the carload of thugs in Yeman with a drone missle. Maybe that's what we need to do in Iraq - saturate the area with Predators armed with Hellfire missles and take out all Sadaam's hide-e-holes, including the big man, himself! Now - we haven't sent any troops in to get bloody noses, we've accomplished our goal of eliminating the scourge and don't have to wait for the UN "inspectors" to stop tipy-toeing around peeking into obvious places that have been sanitized prior to their arrival.

    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"


    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 705
    (1/2/03 6:28:19 pm)
    Reply Re: SDhunter
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    QUOTE: "Is this a liberal minded forum? If so, Please, except my appology for intruding on your forum. I'll leave now."

    Naaa. This ain't no liberal forum. It ain't no Temple of Right-Wing Conservatism populated by a bunch of sycophantic, boot-lickin' toadies neither.

    For the most part folks who particpate here THINK FOR THEMSELVES and have strong self-formed opinions 'bout various subjects.

    I reckon a feller can get his feet wet real fast-like round here. More'n once I've wound up scrapin' do-do off my boots after spoutin' off a'fore thinkin' things through.

    I'f yer a'wantin' to join in on a forum where everybody echo's back yer own opinion, sorta like seein yer own reflection in a mirror, then I'm afraid you ain't there yet.

    On the other hand, if you like to mull over various viewpoints subjects with some (for the most part) reasonably mature folks who are opinionated yet tolerant of differing opinions, then you'll like it here.

    Lots o' folks don't agree with the things I post here. I don't agree with lots' o' things others post. However, we all manage to keep it reasonably civil and usually squeeze 'bout all the "goody" out of every subject that comes up.

    Glad to have you. Join right in, but keep yer "boot scraper" handy...

    -- ND


    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1681
    (1/3/03 12:52:28 am)
    Reply Re: SDhunter
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    How eloquently put, ND -

    'Nuff said!!!
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"


    twins
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 349
    (1/3/03 3:43:01 am)
    Reply Re: Iraq
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    After 9/11 our President, speaking for the American people, said we'd go anywhere, anytime to strike at the terrorists, those who supported them and the countries that sheltered them.
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    What about Libya, Yemen, Syria, most of our border that is open and well, you get the point.


    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5733
    (1/3/03 10:25:40 am)
    Reply
    Re: Iraq
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    most of our border that is open
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    That really burns my butt. The idea of all the Americans trying to make a life for their families and paying to support the illegals.

    CLOSE THE BORDERS
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.
     
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