Dismiss Notice

Please be sure to post images when you're asking what the value of your firearm(s) is. We find this to be a necessary tool when determining a value. 

Is it a Merkel?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by sabourin@talktalk.ne, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. sabourin@talktalk.ne

    sabourin@talktalk.ne New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Hello & Help:

    I recently acquired a new 12 gauge side by side shotgun at an auction. It was sold as a "Merkel Model 1275" Boxlock Non-ejector, Serial no. 871018
    It has 28 in. barrels with raised matt rib, 2 3/4in. chambers, bored approx. 3/4 and full choke, plain scooped-back action with full original colour-hardening and finish.
    It measures 14 1/2in. with a semi-pistol-grip stock including butt-plate, weight 7lb. 3oz., It was provided in its original carton with packing. As per the auction write-up, the gun was manufactured in August 1985. The box is marked as Jagd-Und Sportwaffen Aus Suhl.

    The trouble is that there is no model number on the gun or reference to Merkel. It simply says SPECIAL-GEWEHRLAUFTSTAHL on one barrel and SUHL MADE IN GDR on the other barrel.
    I checked the proof marks and they are East German, Suhl. Under the receiver it has a stamp of a picture of a Blacksmith holding a rod over an anvil with the name SUHL beneath it. On the front of the anvil there is a T over W mark.

    Any help in identifying this shotgun and confirming (or not) the above info would be greatly appreciated. Also any idea on value would be greatly appreciated. I've enclosed some photos below.

    Many thanks in advance, Big Dave
     

    Attached Files:

  2. OneBarfly

    OneBarfly New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Funny, I just opened a box that was delivered by the post office yesterday containing an identical shotgun. Exact same markings, except mine has a 25.5" barrel. It was sold to me as a Thalmann 125 (although this designation appears nowhere on the gun).

    Seems very well made but not fancy. I can't really say what the value is, but I paid less than $300.00 Canadian. I think that it was a good deal.

    Good Luck,

    Rich
     

  3. sabourin@talktalk.ne

    sabourin@talktalk.ne New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Hello Rich : Many thanks for your message.
    I acquired this shotgun in the UK (which is my current residence) for £345. Yesterday I spoke to the UK Merkel importer, and she said the shotgun was very likely a Simson but made in the Merkel factory. She confirmed that the shotgun was manufactured in 1986 and will be sending me a brochure with more details about the gun. She will also be confirming the value in 1986 and current value to me next week, and I'll pass this one when I get it.
    The prices for firearms in the UK are generally higher than Canada or the US but $300 is definitely a good deal.

    Yes, its certainly not a fancy gun, but its got a very tight action and it also shoots well as I found out today.

    sincerely, Big Dave
     
  4. Oneida Steve

    Oneida Steve Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Rich, $300 for that shotgun is a steal. Congratulations.
     
  5. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    North-Central Florida, USA
    Big Dave - for 345 quid you likely did just fine, though it is not a Simson. I'll need a photo of the barrel flats (and every other marking you can find) to tell you more. Also, look on the end of the box and see what you may find there.
     
  6. sabourin@talktalk.ne

    sabourin@talktalk.ne New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Hi Contenderizer : Thanks for your response, and I've enclosed some additional photo's of the shotgun and also the end of the box. As you can see the original model number was scratched out and replaced with 1275.

    One more thing I forgot to mention. The Merkel importer (Viking Arms) thought it could be a Model 85EU, which she said relates to a Simson. Not sure if that helps?

    Thanks, Big Dave

    PS. If you need more photo's of specific sections of the gun don't hesitate to let me know.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. OneBarfly

    OneBarfly New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Thanks for the additional information. My sxs has the same markings except one barrel is indicated as 18.4 and the other is 18.5. I imagine this is the bore measurement? The one I aquired was sold to me by a company called TradeExcanada. Some appear to be in rather rough shape, but others are VG+ condition. The only issue with mine was that it was missing the buttplate. I took some measurements, and it appears that it's more or less the same size as a Beretta 5" - So I now have a Sims limbsaver recoil pad on order.

    FYI - Here's a picture with the new Limbsaver recoil pad attached. The wood is a little "proud", but the fitting is so close, I won't bother to refinish the stock.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  8. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2007
    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    North-Central Florida, USA
    Big Dave, Thanks for the additional photos.

    First: It is not a Simson. Yes, Merkel made shotguns using the Simson name, but they were clearly marked "Simson" given that that name was very well regarded. Also, there are no Simson trademarks (logos) on your gun.

    Second: While I am not well versed in Merkel, I doubt very much that what you have is a Merkel. Again, they are clearly marked.

    Third: Forget the box. When the model and serial number have been altered, anything goes.

    I'm having trouble reading the date stamping, but 1985/86 seems about right.

    I suggest that you send photos to your Merkel UK importer and see what they can tell you.
     
  9. Paul Lewis

    Paul Lewis New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    leesburg
    Hi Its not a Merkel or a Simson its a Thalman East German low grade gun and will make a field gun for the money ! Made in The Sulh area and were not exported to the US
     
  10. blackbern

    blackbern New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    VA