The Firearms Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey folks, I need some help from folks smarter and more experienced than me. I have a JC Higgins 583.1 bolt action 12 gauge. It's obviously old, maybe as early as 1946. The .1 tells me it's one of the earliest of these. To date I've just had to clean and oil it. Wear on the firing pin head cross pin where it contacts the sear caused it to not cock properly. Fixed all that by a full take down including the bolt. Now I'm having trouble getting the weapon to chamber properly. I can chamber a round by pushing it into place with my finger then closing the bolt but it wont slide in by itself. Also occasionally wont eject properly. The extractor on the left side sometimes doesn't fully engage so the one on the right makes the spent shell move a little sideways. I think thats pulling the bolt apart again and making sure theres no carbon gumming up the slot, spring and extractor. Cant for the life of me see what's going on with the carrier however. Alignment? (dont know why it would have changed as I didn't pull it apart) Pulling it apart and really cleaning the whole carrier assembly in my ultrasonic cleaner then oiling all of that? I don't want to take it down any further than I have to as parts are getting harder to find. Any help? Thanks in advance, Leo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,587 Posts
That's an early model High Standard Model 10, or BA-1 with the forged receiver. The later BA-2 receivers were the ones Sears recalled.
Leo, sounds like the carrier isn't doing it's job, might explain the one extractor not hooking the rim. As the bolt goes forward, the carrier lifts the round up in front of the bolt, and under the extractors. Been years since I've had one apart, but I think there's a carrier spring that works with a lever?
Make sure your magazine tube, spring, and follower are clean, and rust free too. The carrier depends on the mag to push the round to the back limit of the carrier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's an early model High Standard Model 10, or BA-1 with the forged receiver. The later BA-2 receivers were the ones Sears recalled.
Leo, sounds like the carrier isn't doing it's job, might explain the one extractor not hooking the rim. As the bolt goes forward, the carrier lifts the round up in front of the bolt, and under the extractors. Been years since I've had one apart, but I think there's a carrier spring that works with a lever?
Make sure your magazine tube, spring, and follower are clean, and rust free too. The carrier depends on the mag to push the round to the back limit of the carrier.
You know, now that you mention it, I cleaned the magazine tube and oiled it. At the same time I retapped and put a new screw into the plug, looking at it right now, it's slightly askew. The magazine tube is not perfectly aligned. Before I take the carrier apart, I may try realigning that and see if it improves. Thanks for the insight. I'm still gonna pull that bolt apart again and really clean those extractor slots and springs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good morning. Pulling apart the carrier, I may have found the issue. The problem now is reassembly. I have to think this is the earliest of the earliest as it has no safety. All of the diagrams I've found don't show the exact breakdown of this weapon. I included 2 schematics from 2 sites, both are identical neither is quite the same as reality. You'll note at the front lower portion of the carrier assembly is a part that isnt named on the JC Higgins schematic or the second. It shows a hair spring and pin. Mine has the pin but a regular tube spring. That was the problem I believe. It had
238232
come off the little upward tang in the second picture. The assembly problem is in the first picture as well. Part number 11, the carrier pin is the same as the schematic but there is also the rectangular piece and spring. These fell out when I removed the carrier pin and I'll be damned if I can tell exactly where that spring fits in as its not part of the schematic. It is not either 12 or 13, the carrier plunger or spring. Those stayed in their respective bore. The rectangular piece sits inside the carrier with the pin going through it and the trigger housing. The spring engages it somewhere in there but I cant tell where. Any clues? Thanks in advance. Leo.
P.S. The extractor was a simply a case of tearing down the bolt again and really cleaning the extractors, plungers springs and groove.
238233
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,587 Posts
Plunger spring? There's only 3 coil springs in the trigger group that I know of, trigger, plunger, and cartridge stop. I don't remember seeing a carrier pin like that, or what purpose that tab would serve. Maybe a replacement from a newer model?
In this video, jump to 9:30, about 11:30 he explains the positioning of the plunger. If it's not right, it'll slip off to the side of the carrier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
That's an early model High Standard Model 10, or BA-1 with the forged receiver. The later BA-2 receivers were the ones Sears recalled.
Leo, sounds like the carrier isn't doing it's job, might explain the one extractor not hooking the rim. As the bolt goes forward, the carrier lifts the round up in front of the bolt, and under the extractors. Been years since I've had one apart, but I think there's a carrier spring that works with a lever?
Make sure your magazine tube, spring, and follower are clean, and rust free too. The carrier depends on the mag to push the round to the back limit of the carrier.
None of the BA-1 or BA-2 bolt actions had a forged receiver. The forged receivers were only found on the models 11 and 14. The last of the BA-2's were not recalled.

The BA-1 and BA-2 used a medium carbon steel that was cold rolled bar stock and was not heat treated. Its strength and hardness was the result of the cold rolling ( work hardening).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've been watching this guys all along. Yeah, I double checked all of that. There is another srping that came out all the same. Might be a renovation but It shows the same wear as the rest. I'm flummoxed as the schematic isnt a perfect match. That little rectangular tab isnt in any of the schematics I've seen so far nor is the spring. Also, parts 7A and 7B are a little different. coil spring as opposed to hairpin spring. I'll see how many schematics I can find for the 12 GA. The one he's using is from Hi Standard. I have it and the one from J.C. Higgins. They both are little different than this guy. Also, they both have the safety assembly. This one looks to never have had a safety. No wear on the stock where you'd rub it with your thumb or on the trigger assembly where the metal would rub. As I said, I'm stumped.
None of the BA-1 or BA-2 bolt actions had a forged receiver. The forged receivers were only found on the models 11 and 14. The last of the BA-2's were not recalled.

The BA-1 and BA-2 used a medium carbon steel that was cold rolled bar stock and was not heat treated. Its strength and hardness was the result of the cold rolling ( work hardening).
Interesting detail. Have any suggestions on the issue I'm having putting the carrier back together? Thanks in advance. Leo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Good morning. Pulling apart the carrier, I may have found the issue. The problem now is reassembly. I have to think this is the earliest of the earliest as it has no safety. All of the diagrams I've found don't show the exact breakdown of this weapon. I included 2 schematics from 2 sites, both are identical neither is quite the same as reality. You'll note at the front lower portion of the carrier assembly is a part that isnt named on the JC Higgins schematic or the second. It shows a hair spring and pin. Mine has the pin but a regular tube spring. That was the problem I believe. It had come off the little upward tang in the second picture. The assembly problem is in the first picture as well. Part number 11, the carrier pin is the same as the schematic but there is also the rectangular piece and spring. These fell out when I removed the carrier pin and I'll be damned if I can tell exactly where that spring fits in as its not part of the schematic. It is not either 12 or 13, the carrier plunger or spring. Those stayed in their respective bore. The rectangular piece sits inside the carrier with the pin going through it and the trigger housing. The spring engages it somewhere in there but I cant tell where. Any clues? Thanks in advance. Leo.
P.S. The extractor was a simply a case of tearing down the bolt again and really cleaning the extractors, plungers springs and groove. View attachment 238233
Note that the yellowish paper schematic is a Sears Roebuck document and in many cases the same schematic is used for multiple variations of the Model 10. The owner's instruction sheet/parts list is a smaller format on white paper. High Standard and Sears both in general appear to be lazy or cheap in their approach to the paperwork. Not just on the Model 10 but overall. The schematics should probably be thought of as cartoons.

Note that each Sears reference number for a 12 Gauge has something that in theory has some feature that makes one or more parts not interchangeable.

I have a large collection of High Standard and Sears High Standard paper but I have none for the early Model 10. These date to before High Standard offered much of anything in the way of a parts list even for their own guns.

The Model 10 583.1 did have a safety or at least mine does. Does yours have an "S" at the right back of the receiver behind a cut for the safety? Is the model number roll marked on the opposite side of the receiver?

My lifter has the cartridge stop spring loaded with a coil spring like yours but there is an additional part and spring that you have not have pictured. It fits between the two halves of the lifter, is pivoted on the lifter pin and is biased upward by a hairpin spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks John. There is an S so if this in fact had a safety someone must have removed it early on (assuming thats what the S designates). It is also stamped back there with the 583.1 designation on the opposite side. I've pictured the parts in question. The little rectangular plate is in fact sandwiched between halves of the carrier to the back side and held in place by the carrier pin. The spring came out when I removed the carrier pin and plate. It however is to wide a diameter to fit in that same slot between halves and I cant see where it would in fact seat and stay other than between the halves. I'm usually pretty thorough in inspecting a thing before I disassemble it so I know where things will go upon re-assembly but in this case I wasn't aware the spring was there so when I removed the carrier pin it just fell out. I know where and how the little rectangular piece (what the heck do you call that?) goes as well as the pin but that spring is a mystery. Neither piece is shown in the J.C. Higgins (Sears) schematic. The carrier pin is. Thanks, Leo
238348
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Your rectangular part is a broken part - see the picture below. The unknown coil spring is not a part of this gun. As I said before the schematics do not represent reality. Your gun is probably circa 1945/1946 The schematic you are using is 1954 and represents parts lists for 12 different guns in several different design series. That document was for use by by Sears in ordering parts. Historically High Standard, and in this case Sears, asked that a person ordering parts specify the model number, which in this case means the Sears reference number 583.1 The 583 is the vendor code for High Standard and the 1 says that is a specific 12 Gauge in the Model 10 family. That gives the Sears person what they need to tell High Standard to properly identify the correct part and revision. Unfortunately the people involved are now probably no longer available for consultation and all we have is what we can find. Unfortunately most people don't understand how that old system worked.

238349
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Okay that all makes sense and looking at the piece yep, the forward edge looks like it may have broken off. Now to try and find that piece and the hair pin spring. I imagine the spring wont be an issue. I have some 20 gauge could rolled steel that I may fashion it out of. I'm a leather crafter and have all the tools to handle that. Did you pull yours down and if not, where'd you come by that picture. I can likely judge size from it but love to get one with something behind it to judge scale. Thanks a bunch for the info. As to the date, yeah I was thinking the same thing. Seems to be first generation. Thanks, Leo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
These shotguns were not sold exclusively to Sears in the late 1940's One customer was an exporter/arms dealer. Their origin was likely in 1940 when High Standard began to sell Shotguns to the commercial market. Sears was a customer back then but I suspect they were not private labeled for Sears at that time. As to scale, you have the small part and know from it the relative hole diameter and part width and thickness. This part is from my 583.1. I took the gun apart so you could see the part.

I suspect but do not know with any certainty that a lifter from a later 12 gauge BA-1 design series could be interchanged. That would greatly increase the likelihood of finding a solution to your problem
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Man you've answered a lot. About the only thing I cant tell is the orientation of the hairpin spring. No loop hole so it cant be secured by the carrier pin. I've done a down and dirty drawing here of how I think that lifter goes in and yes, I can scale it from the picture and the remaining section. where did that spring engage and what keeps it in place? I assume above the lifter but my brain isn'
238351
t wrapping around why it would have downward pressure. Forgive the scribbles at the front of the drawing. My Weimaraner decided it was time to be petted while I was drawing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This helped, found it on ebay. at least I have a better idea of how that engages. Checking now to see if it's available.
238352
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You're right, it does. Moot point as it's not available anymore. Good to see that picture though. Now it all makes sense. I'm going to continue looking to see if anyone has one they've parted out. If anyone has any preferred sources or ideas where, I'd appreciate the input. You guys have been great! Thanks again, Leo

BTW, the spring at the left side here, does it sit over both of the tangs that hold the top of it it or just one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That one appears to have a bent spring.

View attachment 238359
Hey John and Trap. You probably already know them but Numrich Gun Parts was able to locate the lifter and spring. I'm about to reassemble. Thanks for all your help. Just hope that spring I assume someone had put in there to hold the broken piece in place isnt important and didn't fall off of something else. Thanks again. I'll be in touch. For the record, I think I mentioned I'm a leather crafter. If you'd like a holster, a sheath, a sling, I'll be glad to extend the friends and family discount.

Leo
239192
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,587 Posts
I couldn't find this thread in the new format, glad you got what you needed to get it working. I apologize for the misinformation on the receivers, off the top of my head and bassackwards. Thanks to John for the correction!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I couldn't find this thread in the new format, glad you got what you needed to get it working. I apologize for the misinformation on the receivers, off the top of my head and bassackwards. Thanks to John for the correction!
It's all good. Well, mostly. Now the ejector clips aren't letting go when I draw the bolt back. It does chamber a round now. I'm imagining another tear down of the bolt and making sure it's reassembled properly will cure it. Thanks forr your help.

Leo
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top