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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I am just back from 5 days of P-dog shooting in South Dakota, and I have to say, I had more fun with the new Predator than I did with my Swift!:p

Got rained out one day, and almost stuck another day scouting, and disappointed as HELL how hard they are making it to hunt on OUR Federal lands with all the restrictions and "Ferret Relocation" and "Bubonic Plague Vaccine Research" areas closed that just HAPPEN to be the biggest and most easily accessed towns on Federal land....:mad::mad:

But for three days got in decent shooting.

First day over a small town I popped a few from between 100 and 200 with the Swift, then switched to the Predator from the bench, not having actually sighted in since my load work up since we usually do final sight ins on the prairie, but got compressed with the rain out. I knew I was about 1 1/2" high at 100 with the 52 gr Matchkings....

Had about a 10 mph crosswind, took me a few shots to get on, but got my first kill at about 125....(see pics) The 52 gr targets killed them well, but not "graphically." When I went walking with the Trigger stick Tripod I got a couple more with the 60 gr Vmaxs which were IMPRESSIVE. One of my buddies got one with it at about 100 and it just blew him UP.:D

Longest kill with the Predator was on day 2 from the RASS bench was 280 yds with the 52 gr Matchkings, with a 15-20 mph crosswind. Finally got it perfectly sighted in at 100, put the first circle down on the BDC reticle of the Nikon Monarch 3x9 on the dog and held about a half dog left and squeezed...just a little high, windage about right! Second shot I held just between the first circle and the horizontal crosshair, same windage and the dog lifted up and flew backwards.

Found him about 5 feet past the hole with a small neat hole in his neck, not much damage but deader than a doorknob.

But the last day we went "walking," and that is where it SHINED. Slung Predator, Trigger Stick, two 30 round mags with Vmaxs in a pouch on my belt, and a 20 rd mag and the Mossberg 10 rounder loaded with Matchkings and a couple of bottles of water in a Gas Mask bag slung over the other shoulder and we went for a 3 hour hike.

Talk about FUN. Over every rise was another couple of hundred dogs, pick one out, shoot, the others drop, wait then "Whack-a-mole" when they pop out one at a time until they are all down or dead, then pull up the tripod and move on....everything from yippers at 20 feet to lone ones at about 200...wind about 15-20 again, so not easy over 100yds with EVERYTHING moving in the breeze...:eek:

But My Buddies and I got a little separated on the way back, they "stalking" a "monster" dog they missed the day before about 500 yds away, going prone with bipods, and me heading back to the bench, when I came over the last rise and there is a whole FAMILY of little ones on a hole about at about 125..first shot miss, second hit, third tracking a runner, he stops, hit with the 4th, the others not going down but running around....12 shots working the bolt pretty quickly, 5 kills! My buddies when they got back asked if I was in a firefight!:D:p:p

Could have had one more if those last 12 shots hadn't emptied my second 30 round mag, and he went down before I dug one of my spare mags from the bag....

Every mag fed well except one new C-mag 20, which I had to push slightly forward to get it to feed, my 30 rounders fed flawlessly as well as another metal 20 rounder and the 20 rd P-mag, as well as the Mossberg 10...

A Helluva time, my Buddies were impressed with the rifle too, and I am pleased with my new rifle...PERFECT for a "Walking Around Varminter" but able to hold it's own from a bench with all our heavy barreled bench guns...

And the 60 gr Vmaxs are going to be MY load for it...a little more tweaking I bet I can get them under 1/2" too...right now they are running about .5-.6"...They just tore APART P-dogs at what I guess is about 28-2900fps...the one picture was one I shot from the tripod at about 150 with one...turned inside out, landed about 4 feet from his guts...just visible in the bottom corner...almost as impressive as 50 gr Vmaxs from my Swift at 4000....but not quite:p;)

I just might have to get into Coyote hunting here in Indiana.... ;)
 

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Polishshooter,

I wood really like to go do that one day. WHat do you mean about Ferrets messing up yourhunt?
Wow, that new rifle is nice. Probly out of my price range tho. Do you think I could use my .22 or wood I have to buy a center fire? It looks from you're pictures like it is lots of long range shooting so I guess I wood need one. What load did you end up shooting in your new rifle?
 

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Glad it all worked out well! Shot a few back in the 70's. All I had was a .22, and it did very well. But things have changed now with new federal, and state, laws for hunting PD's. I understand that they are protected in some places now. It seems the greenies are complaining about the lack of PD's, in general, and they claim this lack of numbers causes a negitive impact on the Prairies.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It's getring to the point in South Dakota that some people don't know if they hate P-dogs or the Ferrets more!

The story we were told is that some time in the early 1990s, a Montana's Rancher's dog dragged back the carcass of a "BLack Footed Ferret" that was thought to be extinct.

All the "old-timers" remembered the mid-90s, when 30-40,000 "Government Researchers" (mostly college kids) descended on them for weeks, trying to find ferrets in the wild, which they did, and also managed to capture "mating pairs" to breed them in captivity.

Then recently they began trying to "reintroduce" them to the wild, apparently without much success, which has led to closing Federal Hunting Lands to hunting, on the assumtion since they do eat P-dogs, more P-dogs should mean more ferrets, but the jury is still out on that.

But what will really get you is the estimate of the cost....:eek:

Latest GOVERNMENT figures estimate, not counting economic impact, is that it cost the taxpayers somewhere between $600,000 to $1.2 Million PER FERRET "reintroduced.":cool:

And yeah, 30-40000 college kids eating and drinking at places like the "Cactus Cafe" for a year or two is a short term economic boom, but "doggers" provide a much STEADIER income to the hotels, restaurants, stores, the State with licenses, etc., that is definitely in decline as more and more areas are closed, and private landowners are starting to charge up to $100/day per shooter.

All the "Doggers" in the world could not shoot enough dogs to cause a decline in their numbers.

The two BIGGEST contributors to the decline of dog population is (1) the mass poisoning (which ALSO kills badgers, Ferrets, Ground Burrowing owls, etc.) that thankfully is now illegal on Public land but still goes on regularly on private land, sometimes the next section over from Federal land, AND with the "swapping" that goes on each year, where land is "private" this year but "public" next year and vice versa it still affects public dogs....and (2) Bubonic Plague, which seems to be the only true control on populations provided by Nature, which CAN be spread to humans, livesock and Pets.

Now that is what I have been told and been able to learn on my own, and I admit since I became a "Dogger" maybe my view is a little "filtered," but it still seems to me Shooting Dogs should be ENCOURAGED and not DISCOURAGED in light of the alternatives.


Notwithstanding the argument that tens of THOUSANDS of species have come and then gone extinct in the history of our world for a variety of reasons....GRANTED when we can save them we probably should try, especially when it might JUST mean limiting hunting or protecting habitat....

But at what COST do we "play God?"
 

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That's a fine looking/shooting Rifle polish!
I've always wanted to do some of the prairie dog huntin' and hope to sometime.
I'd say that'll work just fine on some of those In. coyotes!
 

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Polish,

Thats' carazy about them ferrets. That is whats' wrong with the federal gvmt.
Dumbasses!! Pissing away our tax money on some stupid rodents. I heard they were killing hundreds of california farms cause of some stupid bait fish!

Sorry but those things piss me off a lot:)

Are those trigger stix? I seen those and they are cool.

So do you ever get any with a .22? I have a mosin Nagant and a SKS but I guess they would be overkill!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
KY, you can do damage with a good .22. In fact, for the first three years my "Walking around rifle" was my Glenfield Model 25 with a Bushnell 4x .22 scope on it.

Plus it's handy to keep a .22 ready in the truck when you are scouting a new town, the first kills we usually get right from the truck with a .22.

It would get it's share of dogs. And one of the "funnest" shots is getting a "yipper" which the .22 does well.

When you walk through an active town, one or a couple of "close" dogs "yip" a warning to the other dogs, and the "yipper" will be close, within 50 yds at least, SOMETIMES within 10- 20 feet! The yipper will just have the very top of his head out of his hole just to his eyes, keeping an eye on you, motionless except a liitle wiggle every time he "yips."

The problem is there might be 20 holes within 50 yds you have to quickly scan to find him, and you have to be fast when you spot him, and it is usually a pretty quick snap shot before he goes down.

If you can quickly hit about a 2" circle pretty close, you would have a fun time just hunting the "yippers" with a .22!;):D

I took my Glenfield this year but didn't use it, mainly because we didn't have all 5 days to hunt.

The other guys both have Ruger 77-22s with nice Nikon .22 scopes on them and every year try to shoot them at 100 from prone with not much luck.

But you will want an accurate centerfire soon enough if all you have is a .22, just because once they figure you out there will be all kind of dogs looking at you (laughing at you?;):D) at 125+.

Now my one buddy's .17HMR Savage does pretty well out to 125 or more, when it's not too windy. But it's usually windy so it raises cain with that teeny buddet.


This year he brought out his light weight M700 in .204 Ruger for the first time that he used to only use for Groundhogs, and he had a helluva time with it as his "Walking Around Rifle." He borrowed one of my bipods and went prone a lot but was killing them from prone out to 200.

Yeah, that's a Trigger Stick Tripod. I'm getting a little too old for prone. (Or actually, getting back UP from prone:p) Plus I don't like the idea of laying down around active dog holes, with their fleas carrying plague and all!:eek:

We have tried walking monopods and bipods, and I decided to buy a tripod. Monopods aren't much better than off-hand, they wiggle in all axis, up/down,side to side) just maybe not as much. Bipods are a little better, but still move a lot in two axis (up/down) and a little side to side. The tripod is the best, but it still isn't a bench, especially in the wind. It still moves though, but we found it best to have the rifle resting as close to it's balance point on it.

For REALLY long standing shots (175+) when I was walking I lowered it to the ground and used it kneeling which was sturdier still.

Plus when somebody else was on the bench, and I saw a dog in another direction I would use the tripod down low right from my chair, and it worked pretty good too.

Also, the trigger stick made a nice walking stick too, I'd use it in the tall grass out in front of me to hopefully help me see a rattler first:eek::p
 

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Discussion Starter #8
And as for cost of the rifle, that is the thing about the Mossberg MVP...I was ready to spend $579 on the longer barreled "Varmint" 24" version with the target stock configuration but didn't have the money at the time I found it at Gander Mountain in November, and when I came into the money in January it was gone, none available, and on the auction site that will be unnamed they were all going for $700+.

But in the process of searching for one I came to like the "Predator" version with the shorter barell (18.5" or 20") and the conventional stock, but with all the other features, but even they were going for $700 or more with all the craziness at the time.

I stumbled on this one at the Indy 1500 gunshow, the only one I saw, didn't even SEE it because it was the only one at a dealers table with no price, just saw "Predator" on the box and asked him the price, and when he said $450 I said I'd take it!

I WANTED a 20" but would have taken an 18.5" Actually didn't even SEE the rifle until AFTER the NICS was done...it was a 20";)

The scope I bought from a scope dealer, wanted a Nikon 4-12x, but he didn't have one, but he had the Monarch 3x9 with the BDC reticles for like $239 so I took it.

Another $40 for the Burris Signature "Z" rings with the inserts so I didn't have to lap the rings mounting a new scope, and I was in business.

So all I have into it is about $730 which is about MSRP for the same rifle from Mossberg with their proprietary 3x9 scope package (I believe it's a Simmons)


Yeah, it took me a while to find a load it liked, and I was almost discouraged in the process, thinking it was "just" an MOA rifle at best, but not only did I eventually find loads that it liked at 1/2 MOA or less, the extra shooting it took me to find them really got me used to that sweet "Accutrigger" knock off AND the scope so that helped me too...

Years ago you could not TOUCH a rifle that performs like this for twice the price at least, and even THEN you probably had to have custom work done to it.

Yeah, you can see where they saved money making it, like the polymer (ok, PLASTIC:mad:) trigger guard and magazine well, and the "pressed" checkering, maybe the stamped sheet metal safety, but Mossberg did NOT scrimp on the pillar bedded laminated stock, the barrel OR the trigger, or anything else I can see that would affect the ACCURACY....

I think for the price you can not go wrong woth the Mossberg.

In fact I am so impressed, they are supposed to be bringing out a .308 version this year for about the same price, that feeds from M1A and DPMS .308 20 round magazines....

IF I get a bonus this year that just may be my next purchase...;)
 

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Some well written post here polishshooter. I've enjoyed reading them, thanks!
 

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it's a damn good thing I didn't catch up with you. home life would suffer greatly. LOL

one of these days though, I will make the 4 hour drive and do it myself
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
68,

My FIRST truck just out of high school was a 67c20...heavy duty in everything but the 3 on the tree that I had to keep a 20 oz ballpeen under the seat for when it locked up...didn't impress any of the high school or freshman college girls I had on a date when I had to block the wheels and crawl under it and whack on it a few times to get it to MOVE, :eek::p. But it helped pay my way through college.

I just WISH it was 4 hours for me....more like 16:eek:

In fact, both my buddies have been talking with me how nice it would be to go back before next year....if only the drive wasn't so LONG!:mad:

Already working on my wife... MAYBE only a weekend or so so I use just a few of "our" vacation days...the $38 South Dakota Varmint/Predator license is good for all YEAR so there's ONE expense covered...and I can pack cheap bologna and cheese and bread in the cooler for food and take a few cases of Hamms with me so I SWEAR I won't have all those large food and booze charges from the "Cactus Cafe...";) LOL
 

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I could even feed you 15 minutes after you cross the SD line from Minnesota on I-90.

do it in the fall and we could do some waterfowl hunting as well. I have a spare 12g for ya to use.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Oh, I have an 870 with screw in chokes behind one of my bedroom doors that I use once in a while I could grab, if my son won't let me borrow one of his Browning Auto 5s or my Fathe'rs Sportsman 48 he inherited....LOL

I've never hunted waterfowl, but used to do a little pheasant hunting in Western New York where I grew up, until the pheasants got few and far between...

I've heard Pheasant hunting gets no better than East River South Dakota?

Gosh, if I could convince my wife to not hate snow so much, I would LOVE to retire to South Dakota, buy some land somewhere right near the river, so I could still hunt whitetails, and Pheasant, but a few hours west hunt pronghorns and P-Dogs!

And vacation a couple times a year a few hours farther west for some great trout fly fishing that I ALSO used to do as a kid in Western New York!

Life would be good!;):D:D
 

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don't forget the walleye, smallmouth bass, and perch fishing. Oh man, when I retire I will be home less than I am now.
 

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I have exactly the same rifle with a redfield 3-9X52mm scope. At first I didn't like it because the bolt was stiff and floppy and would hang opening and closing. After about 200 rounds, 300 dry fires, and lots of lube it has smoothed out and does not hang as often.

I was raised in Oklahoma and used to shoot Pdogs by the dozens. I had a Winchester model 70 220 swift with a redfied 9X scope. Three friends and I would hunt in the OK panhandle every weekend we could. There were some Pdog towns that covered 100 acres or more and the ranchers loved for us to come shoot them out.

We camped out and shot pdogs and black tailed jack rabbits during the day and coyotes at night. We would buy two or three live chickens and at night tie their legs to a stake. Put a string around the neck then go hide in a gully. Every now and then pull the string around the chickens' neck to make then squawk. It was some kind of fun. We would shine a light every now and then to see if any eyes showed up. If they did we would blast away with a 12 ga. loaded with No.4 shot. Other times you would just feel the string around the chickens' neck take off kind of like getting a bite on a fishing rod. Back then there was a bounty on coyotes of $2 each and some weekends we would make $10 or $12 dollars.

Several of the ranchers that owned the land where we hunted would bring food to us every day. One of them had a 12 year old son that would camp out with us every time. His mother would bring fried chicken, sandwiches, bacon, pork chops, cookies and pie every day we were there. She was like an old mother hen with that boy and she liked us as well.

Those were some good times.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Funny Steve, but last year one of my buddies bought a couple of coyote calls at Cabelas and annoyed the heck out of us practicing with them while we were supposed to be shooting P-dogs.... OR eating at the Cactus Cafe, OR drinking good whiskey and smoking good cigars at the Sunshine Inn...OR...:mad::mad:

But now we are thinking or taking a few days next yea just for coyotes...both of them are working on my wife to buy me an electonic call for Christmas...:p

Funny thing though it looks like South Dakota really limits hunting at night, like only on private land and only shotguns...

We are talking about getting out at sunup and setting up for coyotes, of couse if I can wake their reprobate drunken butts out of BED for sunup...;):p
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I have exactly the same rifle with a redfield 3-9X52mm scope. At first I didn't like it because the bolt was stiff and floppy and would hang opening and closing. After about 200 rounds, 300 dry fires, and lots of lube it has smoothed out and does not hang as often.

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Steve, yeah, I was a little worried at first about the bolt, it seemed to "wobble" quite a bit in action until it locked up, nothing like how smooth my Ruger 77VR worked from open to close...heck, it felt like one of my Mosin Nagants;)

But it DID lock up tightly, which is all that really matters, I guess....

I wonder if it has anything to do with that "fluting' on it...LOOKS good but what is the purpose? Just made it a little thinner in the raceway?

But really just a quirk of the gun, I think....in action, I worked it pretty quickly, as fast as I could work it actually, and didn't notice it at all, and it worked fine...

I was more worried about the little lip in the bolt head with the teeny spring that drops down and picks up the round in the mag and then closes up to lock the round in the chamber....it looked pretty flimsy,:eek:

But I read a lot of reviews before I bought it, and have not heard of a failure yet...some of them were going strong after many thousands of rounds, not a failure yet...

It has worked just fine for me so far, and I don't notice the "slop" I noticed before...either I am used to it or it has tightend up with use LOL;):D:D
 
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