LaVoy Finicum - Who Caused His Death?

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by Alaska444, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. ral357

    ral357 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    4,883
    Janet Reno was definitely the “man” in charge.
    Just because Randi Weaver was a stupid man it doesn’t give the feds the right to go all Rambo and slaughter his family. He paid a high price. What price did those in charge of that fiasco pay?
     
    jonb32248 likes this.
  2. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,307
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    You miss my point. Randy prevailed in his case and could have done so before his wife and son were killed.

    When I was in my second year of Residency, I got into an argument with a nurse on a patient I wanted moved closer to the nurses station.

    Actually, I asked the nurse and she yelled at me for ten minutes then reported me to the colonel the next morning. I never raised my voice to her and never wrote an order.

    The colonel told me the next morning not to get in a pissing contest with a skunk but take care of the patient and settle the differences in the morning.

    That is akin to pick your battles carefully especially those you are willing to fall on a sword over it.

    Randy chose further legal action ignoring his court warrant and that was why they sent the US Marshalls.

    Did his son and wife deserve the death penalty? No, but getting into an armed conflict with your government always carries the risk of death.

    Randy could have avoided this by settling quickly as the Bible advises.
     

  3. howlnmad

    howlnmad Old Guy Doing Things Moderator Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    24,532
    Location:
    Harriman, Tn
    Answer to the question in the title;
    the guy that pulled the trigger.
     
    Alaska444 likes this.
  4. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,307
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    Touche'
     
    shootbrownelk likes this.
  5. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,307
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    shootbrownelk likes this.
  6. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,770
    Location:
    Kingsport TN
    So you advocate settling quickly? The bible advises? Not sure I agree with that thought. Again not saying that Randy was very smart in choosing the path he did. But I find it hard to believe that the Bible advises this course of action you suggest. Please provide the passage you are referring to. I don't think God or Jesus ever "settled quickly" Of course we do make mistakes as humans...:)
     
    Alaska444 likes this.
  7. shootbrownelk

    shootbrownelk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,856
    Location:
    Wonderful Wyoming
    Alaska444 likes this.
  8. CCHolderinMaine

    CCHolderinMaine Garandaholic Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,892
    Location:
    Steep Falls, Maine
    If someone drives into a bridge abutment at 90 mph, did the guy who built the bridge kill him?
     
    Alaska444 likes this.
  9. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,307
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    Jesus said this on the Sermon on the mount:

    Matthew 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

    In Luke, Jesus said to look at the cost of something before you start to build or if going to war if you can beat the troops coming against you.

    Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29 lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30 saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

    So if you are going to war with armed police or the Feds, yes, the Bible from Jesus Himself cautions to consider the price first and settle with your adversary quickly.

    Yes, Randy Weaver was entrapped but going to war with the feds instead of fighting them in court destroyed his family killing his wife and son and he and his friend were severely wounded.

    If he had gone to court and prevailed, he would have preserved the life of his wife and son and retained his life on Ruby Ridge.

    Note, I have not talked of the over bearing fed response and I am not at all condoning the actions of the feds.

    The power to settle this in court avoiding an armed conflict is almost always a better choice.

    For LaVoy, he really acts like many suicide by cop folks taunting them to “shoot me” while failing to obey police commands at the point of a gun snd reaching inside his jacket.

    In an interview shortly before this he was stating that sone things are worth dying for. It seems he had been contemplating this outcome for several days before he forced the troopers to shoot knowing he was armed, he was not following commands, he was committing a felony by fleeing arrest and then reaching Into his jacket at least 3 times.

    We have yet to hear from any LEOs on this thread but I suspect the majority of LEOs would shoot LaVoy in those circumstances he alone created.

    Ammon Bundy surrendered peacefully and lives today in southern Idaho. He prevailed in court.

    I saw a documentary with Randy Weavers daughter and how her family was destroyed and the impact this has had on her. All could have been avoided fighting the feds in court.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020 at 1:43 PM
  10. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,307
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    I believe this is the documentary with Weavers daughter I saw a couple of years ago.

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/ruby-ridge/

    Ruby Ridge is especially talked about in our town only a little over an hour away from Ruby Ridge. Several of my friends were here when it happened and they have told me what it was like to watch this unfold before them.
     
  11. hunter29180

    hunter29180 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,770
    Location:
    Kingsport TN
    Thanks Alaska444, those are the passages we were taught teaching thinking before acting in all things is prudent and wise.
     
    Alaska444 likes this.
  12. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,307
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    There are many times I acted before I thought. I regret greatly many of those episodes in my life even today all these years later.

    I respect Randy Weaver for the stand he took against the hypocrisy of the FBI and what they put him through. I wish he had actually taken it to court and prevailed and that America had never heard of Ruby Ridge because it didn't happen.

    But it did happen and whether the cost was worth it or not is only an issue for Randy Weaver to settle in his own mind, but as American's we remember what the FBI sniper did to his wife. The confrontation that led to the death of his son was a tragic engagement by the US Marshalls that was unplanned and happened because of a dog that scared the US Marshall only doing surveillance on that day. It is tragic that a barking dog led to the death of the boy and the Marshall.

    When you have a dead LEO, the dragons of war are unleashed and Randy Weaver's wife Vicky paid that price.

    It is an American tragedy with no winners on that day. The FBI sniper was deployed again at Waco. The Feds had every opportunity to arrest David Koresh at any time for months before the siege but chose to engage in open warfare against a cult. The people inside the compound would have surrendered peacefully if they had arrested Koresh in the first place on his many trips into town.

    David Koresh was a cult leader accused of attempted murder several years before but was the only one of 7 not convicted. That was an attempted murder of the prior leader at the compound. David Koresh was a child molester and sexual pervert that deserved to be arrested for that. Yet most of the children and his "wives" died with him instead in the inferno that could have been avoided by cutting the head off the snake in advance.

    We all will stand before the Lord and give account of what we have done in our bodies, whether good or bad.

    I have many things answer for. I wish I had learned the Bible and obeyed the gospel many years before I did at 36. I am grateful that God reached out to me and saved me from a myriad of sins. Many in the Feds operation at Ruby Ridge and Waco have much to answer for, but so do we all.

    May God have mercy on our pitiful souls and lift us up from this body of sin.
     
  13. Gun Geezer

    Gun Geezer Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    5,188
    Location:
    Central Florida
    The definition of a martyr is what much of this argument is about. I have a conflict with the majority of those killed in police confrontations being classified as martyrs. There is a long distance between the likes of Martin Luther King Jr & Jesus compared to Floyd & his ilk. And that so many of our elected officials & news media don't recognize the difference either.
     
    Wild Turkey Cogburn and bosun like this.
  14. Alaska444

    Alaska444 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,307
    Location:
    Northern Idaho
    MLK is a man who deserves our respect. He sought not to destroy this nation but to unite in the Federalist system governing ALL men by the same laws. He had a Dream that did not include looting, rioting and destroying this nation.

    I believe that LaVoy from the little bit I have seen of what he himself said in during the occupation and in his final moments is that he appears to have wanted to be a martyr for this conflict. Only he knows if that is true, but that was the impression I got listening to his interview and the cell phone video and his actions at the police road block.

    Yet, he fails in that he greatly endanger the lives of not only those inside the SUV with him, but the LEO's seeing to arrest him.

    Some do think of him as a martyr and that is their right to do so, but I don't agree.

    May God have mercy on his soul.
     
  15. Firedog

    Firedog Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,338
    Location:
    VT, Just under the Nostril of the Witches Nose
    If weaver was entrapped the FBI agent and all involved should be held for murder
     
    Alaska444 likes this.