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Let's talk Double Rifles

374 Views 21 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  Grizzley1
I don't have one, and by what I'm seeing on the different websites, I am probably too poor an old church mouse to buy one. But let's discuss the pros & cons, shall we?

I would get the SXS naturally but what caliber is the question. I have seen them in 7x57, 308 & 30-06 and I like or can work with those. But DUDE!! Is there nothing under 5k for one of these??
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Well, they're out there but you have to look for them and not hesitate when you see one that works for you. Another thing to consider is how traditional do you want to be. There is some newer makers out there who don't regulate the barrels in the traditional manner. They come some degree less expensive, generally. They use some kind of "jack screw" method, which you can adjust as well. I think soundguy has one like that and I believe he likes it.

British doubles are always the most expensive. The higher grade German doubles are quite a bit less BUT, they're still going be 5K or over. What I've found is you look for between the wars and pre-WWI and for cartridges less than popular. You SHOULD be able to find something between 3K and 5K. I fear the days of $2,000.00 doubles are over. However, the thing with those doubles is you might have to form the brass from a donor case. The vast majority of the time that is a simple process but, before you pull the trigger on a double in an obscure cartridge, exhaust all resources to make certain it can be formed. There's very, very few that can't be formed but, the level of work can vary significantly.

You can spend almost as much for a muzzleloading double but I would recommend fervently against a M/L double being your first.

Doubles not Nitro proofed and for old BP Express cartridges are....oh my....I think they're the best BUT, I LIKE foolin' with the really oldsters. Sometimes they can be had quite for quite a bit less than something in a modern chambering. They aren't for the faint of heart or if you don't like chasing a load, loading BP cartridges, experimenting, being FRUSTRATED OUT OF YOUR SKULL sometimes, for a while or thinking....a lot....about what the load is doing from two barrels, soldered together, that YOU are trying to get to shoot to the same place. Oh they are such fun!!!!!....seriously!

Frankly, stay away from Sabatti and there's another make out there, Russian I think, that a fella should avoid.

Chapuis, which is French, is a good double and in some good cartridges but, you're back up around 7K+.

Let me suggest a book you get and read first. It should enlighten you considerably about the workings of a traditional double rifle. It is by Grahame Wright and titled "Shooting the British Double Rifle." He's an Aussie and when the first edition came out there had been a slug of British doubles coming into Australia from India so the British doubles are where he and his contributors garnered their experience. Everything he's written is applicable to any traditional double, regardless of country of origin. Ballistics don't care if it's spoken in English, German, French, Austrian or hieroglyphics.

There's been a few editions of the book and I don't know what the later ones might have expanded into. Regardless, it's a good read if a fella never gets a double.

Doubles are a "ton of fun" and, for me, especially the old ones. If you haul it to a range you'll get all kinds of assumptions, quizzical looks, probably an errant smart aleck comment and usually, a lot of admirers...and questions, which is part of the fun.

One more thing, a word about scoped doubles. They are either regulated for the scope OR open sights. It is a rare thing indeed that you will find one that shoots to the same POA with both sighting systems. It has to do with added weight to the barrels and the recoil impulse. It shouldn't take a lot of thinking to understand why.

And, here's my favorite place to shop for doubles. They are subdivided by; country of origin, antique and small caliber. I'll throw up the German doubles first. A trip back to the index will show the others.

Double Rifles - German for sale (gunsinternational.com)

Edit: I'll even go a step further. Here's one I've had my eye on. I think this is a pretty nice double. DON'T look for "8.7 X 72R" ammo. I'd bet the price of this double the actual cartridge is 9.3 X 72R, which is still available as factory ammo. With the German doubles a fella needs some knowledge of how they named cartridges and, as with American cartridge, that sometimes things ain't what they appear to be. The 9.3 X 72R is similar to our old 38-55 and is a fine, old cartridge. Miller and Val Greiss was a fine maker.

FINE ANTIQUE BACK ACTION DOUBLE BARREL RIFLE by MILLER & VAL. GREISS – MUNCHEN from COLLECTING TEXAS – MADE in 1800’s for sale (gunsinternational.com)
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There is some newer makers out there who don't regulate the barrels in the traditional manner.
There's your cost factor!
The Baikal that flyer mentioned is a little heavier than most, but typical Russian, it's functional and built like an anvil, you won't wear it out in your lifetime. The problem is finding one for sale, the owners don't want to give them up. When you do find one, they have doubled in price, but still a good buy.
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My German, muzzleloading double rifle from probably the 1850's is far from worn out. I'll hunt this fall just to use it! That should be how many hunting life times? Same with my Goldmann from the 1870's. And both those are elegant. They both also cost more than the Ruskie and, that's ok.
The Russian isn't in the same class.
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If I was willing or able to spend 10k+, I would have something else. I like my Remington/Baikal just fine. And it is not all that heavy.
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I don't have 5 grand in both of those rifles. If I was able to spend 10 grand, so would I.

I'd really like a double in one of two cartridges. A British double in 450/400 or a German double in 9.3 X 74R. There's plenty out but they're all as 45 described, a bit out of my willingness to pay.

About the only thing in that price range I MIGHT spring for these days would be a good vierling, in the right cartridges.
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The Russian manufacturer Baikal made double rifles chambered in .45-70. For a while they were imported under the Remington brand. In 2010 they could be had for less than $1,000. Baikal used a jack screw to regulate the barrels. I have a Remington branded version. It is presentable and shoots just fine.
At present they are selling for around $2200 - $2400. Still a good value in a double rifle. I use loads meant for a modern Browning/Miroku 1886 in mine.
flyer, I've never seen how the "jack screw" works. As I sort of understand it, one barrel is fixed and you adjust the other barrel to shoot to the same POA? If that's correct, then you aren't restricted to a load or two that regulates in the rifle?

The old BP Express rifles are usually pretty forgiving in that they will regulate with more than one load. Nitrp Express and smokeless powder rifles are not so forgiving. They usually only shoot one load to POA.
I don't have one, and by what I'm seeing on the different websites, I am probably too poor an old church mouse to buy one. But let's discuss the pros & cons, shall we?

I would get the SXS naturally but what caliber is the question. I have seen them in 7x57, 308 & 30-06 and I like or can work with those. But DUDE!! Is there nothing under 5k for one of these??
You say SxS naturally.. but there can be pro and con or either.. sxs reloads faster than OU.. but your point of aim with respect to range and regulation is always center on an OU.. just higher or lower.. whereas on a SxS pre or post regulation point your up and down is usually fine.. but your 'center' can be right or left.

As for options.. there are cheap doubles.. as well as cheap 'cape guns'. There are some Biakal doubles.. I have seen them in 45-70 and 30-06.. I have the 45-70.. and it's an ok gun.. I just run trapdoor loads in it.. it has a kind of hinkey barrel regulation adjustment in the form of basically a turnbuckle between the barrels.. but I expect that from russian technology.. and it actually works ok... The cape guns are usually OU and I have seen many combinations of 12 or 20g and a rifle such as .223 or 30-06.. I have a 12g over 30-06.. again.. basic guns.. no frills.. but... economical too.. if you just wanted to get your feet wet.

From there you can get into black powder percussion doubles price wise.. CVA, kodiak.. etc.. and then from there you are starting to get into real coin even on entry level cartridge doubles.

Chaupis, Merkel, Sabatti, pedersoli will be basically the economy ..more entry level guns.. You can get into these in the 4000-15000 range easilly.. some a hair cheaper. In a quick internet search I found more than a few at the low end of this range...

The sabatti got a bad name years ago due to regulation issues ( old Winchester too - basically if you got a good one..it was good..etc ). Sabatti took its licks and straightened up and fixed their regulation. I took a chance on one..it was spot on and then picked up another.. Also spot on.

Don't forget that Beretta has doubles.. and Winchester offered the Grand European double in a variety of calibers.

In all, I have The folliwing:

The Baikal 45-70.. Sxs..Cheap looking..but works.. Has sheet metal divider between barrels to house the adjuster... Kinda 1600's technology..but works... Was cheap... Like just a few hundred.

I also have a Baikal ou in 12g/30-06. Again..no frills..solid gun. Looks better than the sxs.. Works..still only a few hundred.

Sabatti 9.3-74 sxs... I was surprised. Shoots great..beautiful wood... Nice looker.

Sabatti 470 nitro express.. Nice OU lock... I love the gun... Barrels make it look like a shotgun :)
Nice looker and shooter... Tends to tenderize the shoulder a hair... Both are express guns...point well and shoot to regulation.

Winchester grand European 270 OU 270. Again.. Beauty and style. Shoots fantastic and is well regulated. When I was looking there were 3 for sale.. 7x57, 257 Roberts and the 270... Decided on easier ammo....

As expected the last 3 will set you back quite a few truck payments.

I did however find some examples of all the cartridge guns that I listed in the 3700-5700 range on various sites...
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I might have to settle for a Ruger #1 since it appears I can only afford SINGLE barrel rifles!:eek::D

But we have to have something to dream on, don't we?
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flyer, that Lott has to be.....un-fun in a #1. I've had 5 or 6 #1's over the years and it just doesn't seem like they have enough meat on the bone for that cartridge, for me.

I just sent to auction my #1 in 450/400. It was a good shooter with both full house, NE loads and I worked up a cast load that duplicates my 40-70 Shiloh Sharps. That load was a hoot to shoot!!! Auction is June 3rd and I'm curious to see what it brings.

The 470 NE.....wow. The 450 NE and 458 Win. Mag. felt like my limit. My friend who owns both those rifles also has a Verney-Caron(sp) in 9.3 X 74R. He sent it home with me for a month or so and I developed a real liking for that cartridge....and that rifle. After the auction, a 9.3 X 74R could head the list of lusts.
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I've got a #1 in 375H&H but I like the sabatti double in 9.3x74r better even though they are pretty similar.
I have a river magnum bolt in 458 Lott... And it's way more fun to shoot 458winmag thru it... Ironically though..the most kick I've felt is my 416 Rigby in a cz550.. That gun is simply a shoulder hammer... Just too light I guess. Cool round...but not one I like to shoot much. Im glad it has express flip up leaf sights... It wouldn't be fun working up a scope on that one...
The 416 Rigby has to be the champion 40 cal. out there.
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The 416 Rigby has to be the champion 40 cal. out there.
If I win the lottery, I am going to buy a 416 Rigby double rifle like this. Preferably by an English maker.
Ehhhh.....no, not for me. The 416 should be in a Rigby on a Mauser Magnum action. Double cartridges should be rimmed.......being the hide bound traditionalist that I am..... :giggle:
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Ehhhh.....no, not for me. The 416 should be in a Rigby on a Mauser Magnum action. Double cartridges should be rimmed.......being the hide bound traditionalist that I am..... :giggle:
Shows you what I know. I'm gonna get a big ol double rifle that will kill EVERYTHING in North America. At the same time.
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Then you need to start at 500 Nitro Express and end up at the 577 NE and I say that only because the 600 NE is prohibitively expensive.....but so is the 577, if you can find either. 'Course, there's always the 700 NE....but that's probably a bit overkill for even T-Rex.......:giggle:
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If I win the lottery, I am going to buy a 416 Rigby double rifle like this. Preferably by an English maker.
If I hit the lottery it will be a Holland or Rigby gun..those things cost in the 6 digit range. o_O
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