Loyalist Arms Question

Discussion in 'Black Powder Shooting / Muzzleloaders / Handguns' started by bbayne65, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. bbayne65

    bbayne65 New Member

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    So till now I've mostly collected C&R firearms from the WW2 era for historical purposes. I've decided to try out a black powder musket and from the research I've done, I plan to place an order with Loyalist Arms.

    I've always had a soft heart for carbines therefore I'm deciding between their British 1756 artillery carbine (based on Brown Bess) or their French 1777 carbine (based on Charleville).

    Curious if anyone has opinions. I'm leaning towards the French 1777 carbine due to the small/handy size, the barrel bands (should make disassembly easier), and general looks. On the other hand I'm not sure of the historical accuracy of it nor does it appear to have been used in the Revolutionary war (honestly maybe not that important for me).

    The Artillery carbine is a bit longer, is a model used in the Revolutionary war, looks nice BUT the pins seem to make disassembly a bit more difficult (realizing though you don't have to remove the barrel for each cleaning).

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'd go for the 1777.
     

  3. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    If the 1777 is 69 cal., which I think is correct, I'd go that route as well.
     
  4. bbayne65

    bbayne65 New Member

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    Yeah as mentioned, I'm leaning towards the 1777 as well --- looks like a handy little carbine with 30" barrel. The stated caliber is .65 which I wondered how that related to the .69. That being said, from what little research I did find on the internet about French cavalry carbines, I saw mention of balls of .64 being used so maybe correct.
     
  5. Patches

    Patches Well-Known Member

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    Check out Track of the Wolf and what they offer.
    Personally I am doing some research on the F&IW (French & Indian War / Seven Years War / first real world war) and the gun I have linked below is a good representation of what was a popular firearm with the folks on the frontier. This type of gun was, from what I have read, was what was typically carried by the colonials during the 1775 Battle of the Monongahela. A little known, but very important, battle in which British Regulars and a quantity of colonial troops (including Washington) were slaughtered by the French and their native american allies.
    I built this rifle and it's a substantial piece of iron and wood. Frnkly I have not had a chance to fire it yet.
    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/489/1/AAS-517
     
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  6. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    Patches, was that Braddocks ill fated, arrogant campaign, (think Custer 100 years earlier)? 'Bout has to be, doesn't it? It's the only real battle I know of to include colonials and British regulars in that part of the country at that time.
     
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  7. pdkfishing

    pdkfishing Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Pretty good book on that fight titled Braddock's Defeat by David Preston. Not sure if it's still in print. Small correction of a typo; date was July 9, 1755.
     
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  8. Patches

    Patches Well-Known Member

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    Yes Sharps4590, that's the one. I grew up very close to the site of the battle and after graduating from HS worked in the US Steel mill that Mr. Carnegie built on a big part of the "battlefield". If Braddock had taken the alternate path down the Turtle Creek Valley the massacre would have been much worse. As it was, the whole thing was a disaster and, by some accounts, was the first indication that the vaunted British Army was able to be bested in battle. There is a lot of back-story involved to include the British forces that engaged were not top shelf troops and that Braddock himself was not much of an officer. All of which can be traced back to the miscalculations of the powers that were in charge not having an appreciation for the French and Indian capabilities and the nature of war in the Colonies.
    The British were cut to pieces and the accounts of the massacre and after battle torture of many of the prisoners is hard to imagine - for me anyhow.... All wars are brutal, but being roasted alive is beyond this.
    Sorry for the run on but I get carried away on this particular subject.
    :cheers:
     
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  9. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    It's covered pretty good in a couple of the biographies I have on Washington and books I have on the F&I War. I don't have nor was I familiar with the Preston book. I'll have to check it out. Boone was there as well, as a wagon driver.

    That era is fascinating. The account of St. Clair's defeat in the Ohio country by the Shawnee and their allies is pretty brutal as well. I'm not certain of the date on that one but I think during the AWI or shortly thereafter?
     
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  10. bbayne65

    bbayne65 New Member

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    Yeah, St. Clair's defeat was after the AWI (my grandparents lived close by that area). Was the worst defeat of US forces by native troops in US history. Resulted in Mad Anthony Wayne's campaign.
     
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  11. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    That's right bbayne. Thank you for straightening that out for me. These days I remember a lot of things over a broad scope and forget the details.

    Wayne's campaign...did that end at Fallen Timbers or was that Harrison....or am I wrong on both counts?
     
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  12. bbayne65

    bbayne65 New Member

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    Yeah it was at Fallen Timbers where they were defeated. Fort Recovery has a nice visitor center about St. Clair's defeat and Wayne's building of Fort Recovery at the same location.
     
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  13. Patches

    Patches Well-Known Member

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    So good to hear comment by like minded people. I don't mean any disrespect by that....
    :)
    Some good reading on the subject:
    Crucible of War by Fred Anderson @ 746 pages
    French and Indian War by Walter Borneman @ 295 pages
    The War That Made America by Fred Anderson @ 262 pages
     
  14. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

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    None taken, Patches! The first one I'm not acquainted with though it sounds familiar. The last two I've read multiple times. The Borneman book is particularly good as is The Scratch of a Pen.
     
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