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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, I spent the money to get the bayonet lug, I spent the money to get the bayonet removal device from Fulton Armory, I spent the money to get the reattachment device from fulton armory. Knocked the roll pin out of the sight, pulled the sight off, unscrewed the sling on the front......and found out I actually have to take what I think is called the sight key off too.....:bleh: This appears to be staked in place and can only be removed and replaced by a gunsmith....

My question is: Have I wasted all this time, money and effort for nothing and need to take it to a gunsmith? Or am I missing something?
 

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Not sure what you mean, can you put up a picture of the sight key?

EDIT: Are trying to put the bayonet lug back on a carbine or get rid of it?
 

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Doug, have you read the owner's manual?

If not pm me your email and I'll send you a copy.
 

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I'm not too clear on the 'bayonet removal device'. From what I understand you to say is that you are attempting to remove the carbine front band (with a bayonet lug), and again I am understanding that when you removed the front sight that the front sight key is still in place?

The key is only retained by the roll pin that goes thru the front sight collar. When you have removed the roll pin, and slid the front sight collar, the only thing still on the barrel is the key. The key just sits in a slot milled into the top of the barrel. If it doesn't come off it must be rusted or corroded in place. If that is the case, just spray Kroil or WD40 on the key and let it soak to loosen the key. A light tap with a small brass drift might be needed to beak it free.

I've replaced the front sights on 5 or 6 M1 Carbines (Universal and GI) and have never found one with the front sight key staked in place. If yours is staked, I've never seen one like it. The only reason I could think of to stake the key is if the key was too small or the slot milled oversize.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I'm sorry for the confusion. Mine is actually a NEW M-1 Carbine made by Auto Ordinance that I bought NIB 2 years ago.

The gun came without a bayonet lug. I'm trying to put a bayonet lug on. The key appears to be solidly in place. Is it wise to loosen and remove it? In my experience, once you loosen something like that on a gun....it's difficult (and takes gunsmith material) to get it back in place.
 

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You can enter 'removing M1 Carbine front sight' on Google or search engine site and see a Utube video of a guy doing just what you are talking about. Couple things he does that I wouldn't do - like use a steel pin punch to drive off the front sight, etc. Other than that, you can get an idea of how it's put together from this video.

If you keep on working on that carbine, just remember to use brass hammers and drifts, and be patient. Steel will leave marks. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I can get the front sight off okay. It's just trying to take the pin out is what makes me nervous. Getting it back in and staying in and not making the sights wiggle is what makes me nervous. The guy on the youtube clip (the one that uses his little girl as a gun holder LOL!) doesn't show you anything about putting the key back in. it just "cuts to the next scene" after he tells you he's going to put it in
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Ooookay, I did a little more google searching and came across this: http://forum.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=373333 on the 1911 forum.

Note dfariswheel's comment
"...Under the sight is a machine key in a slot on the barrel. You need to drive or pull the sight without disturbing the key.
Once the sight is off, you remove the key.
Then pull the bayonet and band assembly off.

To reassemble, replace the key in the slot on the barrel and stake the slot in front and behind the key to retain the key.
Reinstall the front sight and it's pin. The pin goes in from either side and is lightly staked on the ends to retain it. "
nicknamed Dr. D on the Coltforum and some of the other forums, Dfariswheel is probably the most knowledgable Coltsmith on the net. I note he states you must "stake" the key when you replace it front and back. I'm not 100% sure what "staked" means, but I take it to mean a gunsmith method of staking a part in place to ensure security. Not something average gun owner like me can do on his coffee table. Am I wrong? I have proper tools specifically for taking the sight off and on and can remove the roll pin easily but I don't want to go any further and get over my head cursing myself driving to a gunsmith to pay $40 to fix something that I messed up
 

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Doug:

It's been a good many years since I removed a Carbine front sight, but it's a fairly straightforward process. Knock the pin out going from left to right - at least I always did, then put a block of hardwood behind the front sight and tap it off going forward. Now you're faced with that key thingie. Never had any problems removing or replacing one. I simply flipped the barreled action upside-down, oh-so-carefully clamped the key between the jaws of my bench vise, and just angled the barreled action upward. Presto, the key was left between the vise jaws. Replacing it was simply a matter of easing one end into the barrel's key slot, making sure the fore-aft placement was right, then turning the barreled action on its side and using the bench vise jaws to press the key back into place as the vise was tightened. That's about all there was to it.

Mac
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
well....forgive me if I am being overcautious, but I just don't want to break something and make DANG SURE I know what I'm doing. Just so i am clear, am I correct on the definition of "staking" in regard to the pin (or any gun part) and if so, why don't y'all seem concerned about it?

I don't have a bench vise...I have a few pairs of plyers that can be gently used. will that do? (as well as a little hammer and a brass peice for tapping things)
 

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Doug;

If you have a set of vise grips with jaws that close parallel rather than at an angle, you should be good to go. About the only aggravating part of removing the sight itself was having to work the hardwood block around the entire 360 of the sight's ring while tapping it forward. Still, it wasn't that big a deal, and I usually accomplished it with the barreled action sitting in my lap. As to the sight key, if you can grab it carefully but solidly with a set of parallel closing jaw vise grips, hang onto the vise grips while tapping the barrel downward. The key should come clear, retained by the vise grips, as the barrel drops away. Restaking it in place is a matter or positioning it in place over the barrel's keyway cut, then tapping it down into place, perhaps giving it a final squeeze home with the vise grips. Replacing the front sight is then a matter of making sure the sight's key slot is matched up with the key already staked into the barrel, then working the hardwood block 360 as you tap the sight back into place. Soon as the sight's pin hole lines up with the key, you're ready to tap the sight pin back into place.

Mac
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
removing the sight was actually the easiest for me with this: http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/tbird430/Firearms/FrontSightPuller.jpg

and putting it back on was equally easy with another device both of which can be bought from Fulton Armory. Take the pin roll pin out, put it over the barrel, take a wrench and start slowly spinning until the sight is pulled off.

I have no bench vice. I might just need to go to the tool box and find a big set of plyers....or even a wrench that I can clamp the key with
 

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Doug:

I've seen some really war-weary Carbines on which the key just about fell out. I don't think a wrench will be necessary. An adjustable vise grip should do the trick for you, so long as it's jaws don't close at a really noticable angle. Only reason I'm mentioning the angle aspect is because you want to insure the sides of the key remain parallel to each other while working to remove it. Worst cases I recall required a bit of side-to side work with the vise grips before the key could be coaxed out, which is why I eventually resorted to clamping the key between the jaws of my bench vise. Same was true for M1917s and M1903A3s.

Mac
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well....I did it! I pulled the key out with some bent nosed plyers. Came right out. It was kind of a struggle having to bend the bayonet lug to fit the stock, but it worked. Had to really bend it back and forth and everywhich way to wher it would finally fit. But it actually holds better than the original ring did without the bayonet lug.

I now have a full 1911 belt and flap holster with one double 15 round magazine pouch and two four 30 round magazine pouches for the M-1 Carbine and a double 7 round magazine pouch for the 1911. Decent rig for hiking in the woods and if the trahs ever hits the fan ;)
 
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