Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1952Sniper, Mar 6, 2003.

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  1. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    warpig883
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 5493
    (12/19/02 6:24:12 pm)
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    Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    U.S. Social Security May Reach To Mexico

    By Jonathan Weisman
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Thursday, December 19, 2002; Page A01

    Pushed by the Mexican government, the Bush administration is working on a Social Security accord that would put tens of thousands of Mexicans onto the Social Security roster and send hundreds of millions of dollars in benefits south of the border.

    White House and Mexican government officials say discussions on an agreement to align the Social Security systems of the two countries are informal and preliminary. But excerpts from an internal Social Security Administration memo obtained this month say the agreement "is expected to move forward at an accelerated pace," with the support of both governments, and could be in force by next October.

    The pact would be the latest, but by far the largest, of a series of treaties designed to ensure that people from one country working in another aren't taxed by both nations' social security systems. In its first year, the agreement is projected to trigger 37,000 new claims from Mexicans who worked in the United States legally and paid Social Security taxes but have been unable to claim their checks, according to a memo prepared by Ted Girdner, the Social Security Administration's assistant associate commissioner for international operations.

    Extrapolating from U.S. and Mexican government statistics, the accord could cost $720 million a year within five years of implementation. One independent estimate put the total at $1 billion a year -- a large sum, but a trifle compared with the $372 billion in Social Security benefits currently being paid to 46.4 million recipients.

    Mexican President Vicente Fox has been pushing President Bush to sign a Social Security agreement with Mexico as something of a consolation prize to make up for Bush's failure to pursue promised immigration reforms, according to Latino lobbyists close to the Fox administration. Mexican officials began pressing the White House hard at meetings that preceded the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum in Los Cabos, Mexico, in October.

    "When the legalization talks began going nowhere, the Mexicans began focusing on this," said Maria Blanco, national senior counsel for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund. "They really bore in at Los Cabos."

    Arturo Sarukhan, a top official in Mexico's foreign ministry, said that after Mexico's failure to win a comprehensive package of immigration reforms from Bush, it is lobbying in Washington for important incremental steps. "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time," he said.

    The Social Security agreement, he said, is one of those less-sexy things that Mexico has been pushing to deepen its relationship with the United States and improve the day-to-day lives of Mexicans.

    Just yesterday, Fox underscored the political pressure he is under domestically to secure concessions from the United States when he journeyed to the border city of Nuevo Laredo to call for an "urgent" immigration accord to end discrimination against Mexican workers north of the border.

    Concern is rising on Capitol Hill -- and even among some White House economic aides -- that any agreement on Social Security could add a new burden to the benefits system, just as the baby-boom generation is preparing to retire. House Ways and Means Committee staff members are meeting today with Social Security officials to hash out projected costs for such an agreement.

    "We are concerned about the sheer magnitude of the agreement," said a House Republican aide who is an expert on Social Security. About 94,000 beneficiaries living abroad have been brought into the system by the 20 existing international agreements. A Mexican agreement alone could bring in 162,000 in the first five years.

    White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said the issue is being explored only at a "technical level" at this point, and the administration has not yet decided to move forward with formal negotiations. "A totalization agreement with Mexico would have significant implications," she said.

    Miguel Monterrubio, a spokesman for the Mexican Embassy, said several meetings have taken place between the Social Security Administration and its Mexican counterpart since November 2001, but he, too, called them informal.

    The Social Security memo indicates that work may be further along than both governments are saying. According to the memo, "the application workloads generated by an agreement with Mexico will be much larger than those resulting from any of the 20 existing agreements" with other countries.

    In addition to the flurry of new claims, an additional 13,000 Mexicans entitled to benefits but cut off by provisions in recent immigration laws could also begin receiving their checks. In a 1996 immigration reform law, Congress decreed that foreigners not legally residing in the United States could no longer claim benefits, unless their home countries were subject to a treaty. Those beneficiaries alone were owed nearly $50 million in 1998, according to a Mexican government document.

    In 49 states ignorance is a crime. In the other one it is bliss.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 732
    (12/19/02 8:41:40 pm)
    Reply | Edit Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    No way........ NO WAY!

    NO WAY!!!!!!!!!
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1611
    (12/19/02 8:47:36 pm)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    WANNA' BET?
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"


    Shizamus
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 16
    (12/20/02 1:02:09 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    Amazing, this country is being taken apart
    piece by piece in front of our eyes !
    By the people that that were put into office
    by the voters.
    I do not recall "We the People " marching on
    Washington and demanding this type of action !
    Is Trent Lott a diversion ?

    "WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE ?

    TYRANNY WILL COME TO YOUR FRONT DOOR IN A UNIFORM !


    teehee1
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 411
    (12/20/02 1:29:51 am)
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    Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    This sh*t is enuf to give anybody a seizure


    Go Get Beer
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 55
    (12/20/02 3:14:12 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    I could have understood something wrong here, but this pact only gives the Mexicans who legally worked in the US and were taxed by the us Social Security system what the Social Security owes them. Would you rather steal what's theirs?

    *fixed fonts*

    Edited by: Zigzag2 at: 12/20/02 6:32:53 am


    JackRyann
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 77
    (12/20/02 3:30:11 am)
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    Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    When they decided to come here to work what was the law?

    They had every opportunity to learn the law when they decided to come here to work. They decided it was still worth it and they are owed nothing.

    If they don't like stay home. I won't miss 'em any.
    ---If you wouldn't take that shot with the LAST bullet in your gun, you don't have any business taking it with the FIRST.---


    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 4920
    (12/20/02 6:38:44 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    you'd think all of Mexicos bordering states would have something to say about that. Take the Texans for example...
    (running for cover)


    Ballistic
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 65
    (12/20/02 7:08:44 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    im in California, I think that they deserve nothing, they dont live hear so no they shouldnt get Social security! our wages are like gold compared to theirs so why give them more! i swear the Us is out helping everyother country except the US... really makes me mad!

    "edited"

    Edited by: Zigzag2 at: 12/20/02 7:30:35 am


    Go Get Beer
    V.I.P. Member
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    (12/20/02 7:45:32 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    Maybe you should then exempt the non-US citizens working in the States form paying Social Security, instead of taking the benefits, but still requiring them to pay.


    1952Sniper
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 738
    (12/20/02 7:55:05 am)
    Reply | Edit Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    Ok, Ok..... If they paid into it, then let's give them the benefits. But only what they paid into it. Nothing more. That's fair.

    But the thing that really worries me is that you will have Mexicans coming out of the woodwork claiming to have paid into it. Mexico is not like the US, where we keep good records of such things. Anybody can claim to be someone they're not, and reap benefits they don't deserve.

    For example, I know one guy who works for my company, who goes home to Mexico each Christmas, and comes back over here with a different name. He's on at least his third name since I've known him. Now what do you do about that? Technically, he could find 2 other people in Mexico, give them his old names, and now you've got 3 people riding Social Security when only 1 deserves it.

    BUT - I really don't know if many people will use it. Hell, my company gives 'em good affordable (cheap!) health insurance, 401(k) benefits, and all kinds of goodies, but they aren't interested in it. All they want is cash, so they don't get tied up in "the system". In order to benefit from Social Security, they'll have to get into "the system". And I'd say probably 75% of them won't do that.
    Macht kaputt, was euch kaputt macht!


    shooter45 us
    *TFF Chief Of Staff*
    Posts: 2002
    (12/20/02 8:13:51 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    Perhaps Mexico could start their own Social Security system. ;


    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3263
    (12/20/02 8:35:39 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    This is the same agreement we've had with Canada for many years.

    My sister worked there for about 20 years. First as an instructor in interior design at the University of Winnipeg, then as a furniture buyer for the Hudson Bay Company, then in charge of displays for the Eaton Dept. Store chain. She had worked here in the U.S. too (the first 20 years of her working life), and always kept her American citizenship. When she retired, she moved back to the U.S. and received both U.S. and Canadian Social Security for the rest of her life.

    It seems to me that if you pay for benefits, you should be able to receive them.


    hammer4nc
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 436
    (1/18/03 10:01:44 am)
    Reply Re: Make sure you pay your taxes, millions depend on it.
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    Yo piggy, whazzup wit dem heated tailgates?
     
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