Malfunction: was it the ammo or the gun?

Discussion in 'Centerfire Pistols & Revolvers' started by C.King, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. C.King

    C.King Member

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    In need of a little expertise...

    I have been shooting a Sig P365 XL at the range with no problems, for about 600 or so rounds (I am determined to get very familiar with it).

    Yesterday I had it jam on me for the first time.

    The bullet came out of the casing, and fired just fine, but the casing did not eject from the gun. (I think there is a name for when that happens?)

    I had been shooting Remington Range ammo through it, and switched yesterday to trying both Remington and Browning. It was the Browning that jammed.

    I was a little surprised that this happened, as I have heard such great things about the Sig, but someone suggested that it might have just been the ammo and not the gun since the bullet did eject and since I had been using Remington prior to this with no problems.

    I was curious to know what those of you who are far more experts than me might think?

    Is this the fault of the Sig, or the ammo? If it is the ammo, should I avoid Browning (does it have a good/bad reputation)?

    Also, how can you tell when it is safe to clear a jam on your own by racking it and when you should get expert help?

    Thanks so much!
     
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  2. vassago

    vassago Well-Known Member

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    FTE - Failure to Eject.

    Can be a lot of things and with just a description it will be hard to solve. FTE can be caused by Ammo, the gun, the shooter or a combination of both.
    It can be the ammo if it's loaded too light, either on purpose (handload usually) or a screwup at the factory. It a round is loaded light the slide does not fully come back to eject the empty case and pick up a fresh round.
    If your gun did try to feed a new round it is likely not the ammo.

    FTE's also occur when the extractor slips off the rim (obviously ;) and leaves the case in the chamber. This can have multiple causes as well, bad rim, bad extractor(hook), bad extractor tension, or rough chamber and probably some I forgot.
    You would have to bring the gun to a gunsmith for close inspection to determine the cause.

    As for safely remedying jams, as long as you keep to the golden rules :
    -Don't point it at something you are not willing to destroy/kill
    -keep you finger of the trigger
    You can remedy jams all day long without it becoming unsafe. (barring unsafe ammo or squibs)
    With a FTE blindly racking the slide will most likely only result in a double feed instead of fixing the jam. You will have to drop the magazine first.
    If you have a shot that feels "funny" (ie .low recoil) and than a FTE/FTF (failure to feed), check your barrel for obstruction as well.

    For now I'd say just continue with the gun and see if it jams more often or not, it could be a once in a lifetime thingy. If it starts happening more often go see a gunsmith or maybe someone else will chime in here.

    I have never even seen Browning ammo, so no comment on that. I would buy the cheapest (reliable) ammo I could find so I could get as much trigger time as I could. (afford)
    Depending on your level of skill and what you are training on dry-fire can also be invaluable and better yet, it's free.

    Are you planning on carrying the Sig or use it for Self Defence?

    Sorry for the wall of text :D
     
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  3. Gudaki

    Gudaki Well-Known Member

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    FTE failure to eject, you could have had a low charged round from the factory, it's been known to happen on ocassion even from reputable manufacturers. Did you shoot any more of the Browning ammo?

    I have never had a jam that I could'nt fix (I'm sure it's possible) but safety when doing so is paramount.
     
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  4. ral357

    ral357 Well-Known Member

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    Start with the simple basics. Have cleaned the pistol? Did you inspect and clean it when new or just load her up out of the box and go? She may just need a good cleaning. Cheaper bulk ammo can be a bit dirty.
     
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  5. ScrapMetal

    ScrapMetal Well-Known Member

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    Another thing not mentioned that also acts like a "light load" is the shooter "limp wristing" it or not having as firm a grip on the pistol. Not saying it happened here but is always a possibility. Oh, and I agree with ral357 - give it a good cleaning first.

    FWIW

    -Ron
     
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  6. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    The guy only had a single Failure to Eject. What does it really matter? Can happen to any Automatic pistol with any brand of ammo. Keep shooting, if it continues to happen, then worry about it.
     
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  7. sparkyv

    sparkyv Well-Known Member

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    I would question the ammo first as you described the FTE after changing ammo. Semi-autos can be ammo-finicky, so find what works well and stick to it, especially your SD ammo, :eek:


    Tap, Rack, Bang:
     
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  8. rglbegl

    rglbegl Well-Known Member

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    Did the gun shoot fine after you got that casing out?
    If so, probably the ammo.
     
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  9. mudman35962

    mudman35962 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    all the above!! i have a 365 and shoot reloads, this is a good gun. shoot it often shoot anything you want in it till it tells you it does not like what you feed it. a jam with any gun can happen. learn to clear the action, check the barrel is clear and get back to it. hope you have fun with your sig, great gun!

    rick
     
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  10. C.King

    C.King Member

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    Thank you to everyone who commented!

    I am still rather new to shooting, and heard so many great things about the Sig, that I was not expecting it to jam so soon. I became a little concerned.

    I appreciate the wall of text! It is helpful. Thanks!

    What are squibs?

    I would like to use the Sig as a concealed carry.

    How often is too often for a gun like that to jam? I am still trying to learn when it is just something I should see as a fluke and when it should be something that should not be happening.

    Yes, I did shoot more that day. Not a ton, but a few more full magazines. I did not have any other problems but I will try to shoot more of the Browning the next time that I go and see.

    Yes, the gun has been cleaned and also it was cleaned and lubed by someone at the gun store/gunsmith shop before I ever shot it.

    I am still rather new to shooting, and this is the first time I ever had a jam. I had been told many good things about the Sig, and was even told I would not have any problems with it, and so I was trying to determine when a jam is something to shrug off and when it is something to be concerned about.

    Yes, it continued to shoot just fine after the casing was removed.

    Thanks! I appreciate hearing from another Sig owner. Have you ever had it jam and if so, how many rounds had been through it by then? It is a great little gun and I do like it.

    Thanks again to everyone!
     
  11. mudman35962

    mudman35962 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    sure i have had jams. when you reload this can happen. a low power reload may not have enough power to cycle the action, all guns are different. new guns different from well used ones. when i start with a new powder and start at the low end often my gun will not cycle. that is why i only load a few and give them a try. once i am sure i am part that i start looking for best to me load will be. i do NOT like heavy recoil, so hot loads are not my thing. if the powder can not give me a sweet spot, i move on. this is to me one of the reasons to reload. and the joy of it.

    rick
     
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  12. C.King

    C.King Member

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    Thanks. That helps to hear. Someone in the store acted like I would never have a problem with the Sig, and I found that to be surprising. I mean, no matter how good it is, it is still just a machine. I have met different people who reload, and it sounds like there is a lot to it. That is pretty cool though for those who can do it. I appreciate your thoughts!
     
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  13. Firedog

    Firedog Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I carry a Sig 2022 in .40 it has never failed me.
     
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  14. mudman35962

    mudman35962 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    you bet there is a lot to it. get started. read this forum on reloading. read others. get books. then do it. all the information is in front of you. best of luck, expand your shooting experience, and your life will have more meaning. and you will shoot more.

    rick
    keep us informed
     
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  15. Kweeksdraw

    Kweeksdraw Well-Known Member

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    No one answered your squib question. A squib is a discharge that is too light for the gun to function properly. It can lead to disaster because the projectile may be lodged in the barrel. And if another round is fired it can blow up the gun sending shrapnel in every direction. If you fire a round and it doesn't feel right and the case doesn't eject. Make sure the bore is clear. You can run a piece of weed eater line or a pipe cleaner in the chamber and out the muzzle to check. Put something like that in your range kit. Also there is the hangfire. It is an apparent dud that goes off a few seconds later. While shooting, if the gun goes click. be sure and keep it pointed at the target for at least ten seconds. More is better. You can't learn it all at once. Just enjoy your shooting and ask questions. And it's good to get second or more opinions.