What do you think of the Beretta 92 Jack? I feel the same way you do about the Glocks.
me and Glock's i finally got a decent play with them
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the old L92 is a nice gun , just complex.
never had a issue with them myself as the ones we had where pristine , but a few civvy folks who have em have issues with one that are worn..
and anything Beretta is expencive here so this nice gun is sitting awaiting repair and i'll know more then
its at a mates shop while the guy gets beretta Australia to get the parts needed , after it took him 2 months to save for the cost of the parts
a 92 here ( 92 FS A1 say nowdays) i RRP at $1699 and sell at $1225 inc transfer plus 10% tax
but again complex , now say you had a Army and got these checked and serviced regular , no worries at all
but as a stand alone long term SHTF gun , get 5 of each small part and spring in case
again i think the 1911 though they wear too , are easier to service and maintain and will last longer ( M1911 A1 anyway othere? a a case by case basis ) and have fewer parts to wear and to replace making replacement simpler and possible to do grassroot long term if you had too
i'd not like to make beretta springs by hand from scratch . and them rollover bar things
but use one
SWEEET
double tap heaven
brilliant to shoot when worked in to you
recoil balance is excellent but it can lead to heeling and shooting high if your a regular 9mm shooter as theres less rotational force with the beretta ( through more bits moving)
great to shoot , possibly the fastest sight plane reset under $1500 in 9mm if i could put it that way ( as a IPSC shooter )
a worry long term SHTF but something you can easily prep for too so negates that worry
but i do prefer the .45 acp in a 5 1/2 " or better
but if i was allowed a unlimited ammount of hand guns i'da grabbed a few , good point weapons
but i'm limited so only have a old beretta as a trade gun currently
never had a issue with them myself as the ones we had where pristine , but a few civvy folks who have em have issues with one that are worn..
and anything Beretta is expencive here so this nice gun is sitting awaiting repair and i'll know more then
its at a mates shop while the guy gets beretta Australia to get the parts needed , after it took him 2 months to save for the cost of the parts
a 92 here ( 92 FS A1 say nowdays) i RRP at $1699 and sell at $1225 inc transfer plus 10% tax
but again complex , now say you had a Army and got these checked and serviced regular , no worries at all
but as a stand alone long term SHTF gun , get 5 of each small part and spring in case
again i think the 1911 though they wear too , are easier to service and maintain and will last longer ( M1911 A1 anyway othere? a a case by case basis ) and have fewer parts to wear and to replace making replacement simpler and possible to do grassroot long term if you had too
i'd not like to make beretta springs by hand from scratch . and them rollover bar things
but use one
SWEEET
double tap heaven
brilliant to shoot when worked in to you
recoil balance is excellent but it can lead to heeling and shooting high if your a regular 9mm shooter as theres less rotational force with the beretta ( through more bits moving)
great to shoot , possibly the fastest sight plane reset under $1500 in 9mm if i could put it that way ( as a IPSC shooter )
a worry long term SHTF but something you can easily prep for too so negates that worry
but i do prefer the .45 acp in a 5 1/2 " or better
but if i was allowed a unlimited ammount of hand guns i'da grabbed a few , good point weapons
but i'm limited so only have a old beretta as a trade gun currently
see i know i can carry my 1911 , parachute into a ocean crawl through jungle cocked and locked , did so for years , and if you look at the mechanics you can see why .
i'd never feel comfortable do that with a glock ..
they are NOT forgiving when swapping mags with your finger in the guard ( DUH!!!!!) , the slide has a section where you can "walk" the trigger safe and disengage it ( maybe pre engage is a better term ??) , you drop a slide on a full clip , its then maybe you get a bang
i do not beleive this can be done by accident , people constantly cocking the weapon dropping the mag and cycling it can .,. ( stuffing about like a idiot we call it here ) i played hard with it, i did not trip it , i do think its possible
you can feel the mag safe via the trigger safe , same as the slide safe/ disconnector when they are actioned
all them bits the mag detector/disconnector/slidesafe/trigger safe/and their cross conections , add a dirty gun with soot build up or wear and its chances of going bang increase
what i mean , is you can fiddle with it and keep playing it you could create the environment to have a accident
day to day use , no i dont think so , ya'd have to be stuffing about with it to do anything , you can do the same with other brands too if your a idiot ..
only guy i know shot him self accidently here was stuffing about too , wont admit it , but folks where there
the guns always live and the horse always kicks
yes we can have fun with them but there far from toys and folks forget that and when caught out are embarassed
all tech and gripes aside
i'm getting one as a trainer and plinker for the grandies
i trust them to never handle a gun thats loaded unless they are ready to shoot it
i'd never feel comfortable do that with a glock ..
they are NOT forgiving when swapping mags with your finger in the guard ( DUH!!!!!) , the slide has a section where you can "walk" the trigger safe and disengage it ( maybe pre engage is a better term ??) , you drop a slide on a full clip , its then maybe you get a bang
i do not beleive this can be done by accident , people constantly cocking the weapon dropping the mag and cycling it can .,. ( stuffing about like a idiot we call it here ) i played hard with it, i did not trip it , i do think its possible
you can feel the mag safe via the trigger safe , same as the slide safe/ disconnector when they are actioned
all them bits the mag detector/disconnector/slidesafe/trigger safe/and their cross conections , add a dirty gun with soot build up or wear and its chances of going bang increase
what i mean , is you can fiddle with it and keep playing it you could create the environment to have a accident
day to day use , no i dont think so , ya'd have to be stuffing about with it to do anything , you can do the same with other brands too if your a idiot ..
only guy i know shot him self accidently here was stuffing about too , wont admit it , but folks where there
the guns always live and the horse always kicks
yes we can have fun with them but there far from toys and folks forget that and when caught out are embarassed
all tech and gripes aside
i'm getting one as a trainer and plinker for the grandies
i trust them to never handle a gun thats loaded unless they are ready to shoot it
these folks are talking bisiness and its pretty straight at the higher levels
they discuss this in terms of holding costs, $ maintenance, and ROI ( return on investment)
i steel gun long term stills needs to be upkept , in a police situation that means equipment and staff as they dont train cops to service guns .. ( basic cleaning is all i seen )
the glock idea is to supply a gun that has a warrenty and maintenance agreement
, its like a extended warrenty , if any gun has issues you issue another ( they supply spares as well ) it gets sent back to the warranty provider, repaired or replaced and one put back in the spares to replace it
thats what glock offers ( civillian sales are a great bonus , but the design was for mass sales in this way)
long term , it may be cheaper , but rememebr they have to do it this way
it was as the only cheaper option to spending 30% more to buy a steel gun that will last 60 years in service as the 1911 does , to offset the cost , the gun is built around alternative funding model ( and to be as proprietary as possible )
when you look at the 1911 and some others and see what they are up against , you can see its a smart business option , again it dont suit military , but cops ? , yeah a good fit , cops ( sorry but i think most cops ) dont have the same experience or time in hand of military so a far as low cost to train and no local maintenance cost weapon is a good idea
its like leasing a truck or renting medium term to solve a bubble in your business
after the cyclones here a mate hired some gear and trucks rather than buy , the cyclone damage would be fixed in a few months and the boom in repair work would not last so he rented some and is in front
building companies hire long term scaffold and things as well , as its costly to maintain and replace
small government has a holding cost of maybe $140,000 a year for one armourer ( wages space tools insurance etc)
if they can get 1000 pistols to serve their cops with no maintinance costs for a 10 year cost of the same ...
thats the glock selling point
and if its a hassle they'll give you a new one ! 3 times in for repair , no questions asked replacement
or thats the gov deal i seen , and i think its ok and understand why so many PD's use em
dunno yet about personal warranties
even colt aint as good as you hope as a consumer at times cause its up to the local distributor to deal with that here
pOint being , they are hi tech but cheap to make , they can be replace cheaply if theres a hassle and require no skilled staff for this process to happen
the basic parts , are ok , barrels are lighter but they state these are not for P or +p loads to everyone
these are made for folks or gov who will shoot factory ammo every time , get the thing stripped and cleaned every 6 months or so , be fired 1000-2000 rounds a year plus ( i like this ) Emergency use ( read the literature, they are soo PC )
and this way these things will last 20 years no problems ( some will suffer more in Australia due to UV , but thats life here )
can i ask the cops here how many round they fire through their service pistols a year ??
2000 ?? i'll wager most dont shoot 500 a year , cops i know shoot personal guns more than service ones ..
some hard core range nuts like me might do more , so you buy a new barrel every 5-8 years
its cheap compared to most
looking at the info here
say i had a 10 year old one and the frame was ok but the barrel and internals are worn , a real high use , but well looked after gun
$490 would totally refurbish this ( parts and labour )
a total rebuild on a smith 40 all internals is almost the price of a new one ( parts and labour )
its a different business model than long lasting reliability , cars went the same way a bit
cheaper easier to replace parts rather expencive long lasting ones
maybe its a sign of the throw away society , but heck if it saves some tax dollars for the folks in the log run ,
go for it
they discuss this in terms of holding costs, $ maintenance, and ROI ( return on investment)
i steel gun long term stills needs to be upkept , in a police situation that means equipment and staff as they dont train cops to service guns .. ( basic cleaning is all i seen )
the glock idea is to supply a gun that has a warrenty and maintenance agreement
, its like a extended warrenty , if any gun has issues you issue another ( they supply spares as well ) it gets sent back to the warranty provider, repaired or replaced and one put back in the spares to replace it
thats what glock offers ( civillian sales are a great bonus , but the design was for mass sales in this way)
long term , it may be cheaper , but rememebr they have to do it this way
it was as the only cheaper option to spending 30% more to buy a steel gun that will last 60 years in service as the 1911 does , to offset the cost , the gun is built around alternative funding model ( and to be as proprietary as possible )
when you look at the 1911 and some others and see what they are up against , you can see its a smart business option , again it dont suit military , but cops ? , yeah a good fit , cops ( sorry but i think most cops ) dont have the same experience or time in hand of military so a far as low cost to train and no local maintenance cost weapon is a good idea
its like leasing a truck or renting medium term to solve a bubble in your business
after the cyclones here a mate hired some gear and trucks rather than buy , the cyclone damage would be fixed in a few months and the boom in repair work would not last so he rented some and is in front
building companies hire long term scaffold and things as well , as its costly to maintain and replace
small government has a holding cost of maybe $140,000 a year for one armourer ( wages space tools insurance etc)
if they can get 1000 pistols to serve their cops with no maintinance costs for a 10 year cost of the same ...
thats the glock selling point
and if its a hassle they'll give you a new one ! 3 times in for repair , no questions asked replacement
or thats the gov deal i seen , and i think its ok and understand why so many PD's use em
dunno yet about personal warranties
even colt aint as good as you hope as a consumer at times cause its up to the local distributor to deal with that here
pOint being , they are hi tech but cheap to make , they can be replace cheaply if theres a hassle and require no skilled staff for this process to happen
the basic parts , are ok , barrels are lighter but they state these are not for P or +p loads to everyone
these are made for folks or gov who will shoot factory ammo every time , get the thing stripped and cleaned every 6 months or so , be fired 1000-2000 rounds a year plus ( i like this ) Emergency use ( read the literature, they are soo PC )
and this way these things will last 20 years no problems ( some will suffer more in Australia due to UV , but thats life here )
can i ask the cops here how many round they fire through their service pistols a year ??
2000 ?? i'll wager most dont shoot 500 a year , cops i know shoot personal guns more than service ones ..
some hard core range nuts like me might do more , so you buy a new barrel every 5-8 years
its cheap compared to most
looking at the info here
say i had a 10 year old one and the frame was ok but the barrel and internals are worn , a real high use , but well looked after gun
$490 would totally refurbish this ( parts and labour )
a total rebuild on a smith 40 all internals is almost the price of a new one ( parts and labour )
its a different business model than long lasting reliability , cars went the same way a bit
cheaper easier to replace parts rather expencive long lasting ones
maybe its a sign of the throw away society , but heck if it saves some tax dollars for the folks in the log run ,
go for it
i aint trading the EAA or STI
but i can see why they are getting popular
my big worry is folks will think low maintinace = NONE and they'll have hassles then ..
no gun works well when gummed up full of junk
the sales pitch i see online , is worrying .. makes inexperienced folks think wrong
been looking at a few ..
but the ones i want i cant get here , we've models i cant see in the US stores
i cant see a .22 only in the US at all , you buy a 9mm and get the .22 kit
weve 2 models here but both the teens ..
but i can see why they are getting popular
my big worry is folks will think low maintinace = NONE and they'll have hassles then ..
no gun works well when gummed up full of junk
the sales pitch i see online , is worrying .. makes inexperienced folks think wrong
been looking at a few ..
but the ones i want i cant get here , we've models i cant see in the US stores
i cant see a .22 only in the US at all , you buy a 9mm and get the .22 kit
weve 2 models here but both the teens ..
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