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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Yesterday i was lucky to get some range time in with some friends and a gent from Glock in europe

now as i've stated here a few times , i'm not a Glock fan due to one reason

i ask folks about thier Glocks and get stupid answers or get counter asked if i'm stupid etc

the only experience i have with Glocks is from repairing South Australian police glocks and many of those where bought second hand ( Ex EU police i think some where ) and some new ones to make up the numbers

and frankly what i saw was a lot of hassle but never knew if it was a from abuse lack of care or not a long lasting gun ( all early model glocks )

i've asked here and been told not to question the glock

to me thats the same as dont question obama , as i'll question anything until i'm satisfied , frankly its a insult

only one person here has stated clearly why he likes his glock , and his thoughts on its down side

, THANK YOU!!! and i now agree with the assessment he gave and why he likes his

now i got to play with the entire range of Glocks yesterday , i had a guy from the company explaining very honestly the good points and weak points of the glock

and i learned a lot

what i liked

ease of use ,

yes these things are made for simple use , aimed at minimal training to get decent results

and made to be cheap but make the company money but to last so they honour their warranty , but not much more as they wish to sell you a new model

The factory guy stated

we'd like to sell a new gun to our high end users once every 8 -10 years

we dont make them to last more than that for sales , but also so we can move our customers into the future as we are constantly updating and researching and improving the system
a honest man with a clear and precise responce !!!!

so onto the firing

i got to shoot a few mags through each model including .45 cal models thanks to this being a demo test for government here there was a exception to the no .45 rule in this state for the testing

i shot 9mm .40 S&W and .45 ACP and i shot a couple new model trainers in .22 lr

and i did not mind the shooting , they fired well and where ok balance wise on the recoil , a couple models in the teens ( sorry i shot a few so not sure exactly which ones ) where a bit top loaded recoil wise ( not enough weight to counter the recoil so slowing down the return to targeted sight picture )

but i see that in many lightweight guns today ( i like steel as it counters this much better than synthetics) but its not hard to adapt to

my biggest complaint over all is the rounds we shot , i really dunno if i'd reload them , many had bulges beyond what i prefer which has left me with questions for folks who reload for glocks from brass shot byglocks , is it ok ?? let me know as though i did not take a loop ( magnifying glass) with me but what my old eyes did see worried me some

would i buy one ??

yes i am , i'll buy a .22 glock for the grand kids to train on and for me to plink , .22 LR is all factory so i dont have reload worries so dodge that issue and i think as a trainer the simplicity would have a advantage

i'll reserve total judgement as to whether i'd buy a centre fire version as i reload until i KNOW that side

would i buy one to be a SHTF weapon ?? no .. straight up no

but as a daily carry , i do not see the hassle with that WHILE YOU CAN GET IT FIXED and buy factory loads

but it may be too delicate for a SHTF reload all you shoot scenario

if your a average shooter who wants to carry , i'd not bag you at all for buying one and i can now see why folks like em

they are light and easy to use and dont hurt so much if you wedge ya digits unlike steel guns who'll remove skin instead of reminding you to move ya fingers like the glock does

i played the knuckle head game with its and still have all skin , i deliberatly did things that folks complain about with steel guns and as told the glock dont grab hard but that hammer is a worry , anyone been zapped in the web of your hand with a glock ? i asked the rep and could see it its a common complaint , but he did not exactly respond to that one ..

but i'll wager its common with beginners

personally i did it slowly and only to pinch to see , not via a fired round

over all i'm actually impressed more than before

i can see the value points of the make and would suggest the smaller trainers to anyone happily , for experienced users , or for those who want to depend on the gun to be there no matter what , maybe look to steel guns especially for SHTF and have to reload scenarios

but a suburban guy or gal looking just for personal protection?

go for it

it'll do the job fine , just expect to replace it if it gets a lot of use or practise but at that price they are for the average shooter over 20 years say ? worth it ? yes ..

but for my main carry , for me anyway

i'll stay with steel guns as they suit me and my needs better

and i'm tough on guns

but am ordering a .22 in the next week after i look more closely at models and price and civil availability here

and expect the grand kids and friends to have a lot of fun with it when we get it

cheers
 

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What do you think of the Beretta 92 Jack? I feel the same way you do about the Glocks.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
the old L92 is a nice gun , just complex.

never had a issue with them myself as the ones we had where pristine , but a few civvy folks who have em have issues with one that are worn..

and anything Beretta is expencive here so this nice gun is sitting awaiting repair and i'll know more then

its at a mates shop while the guy gets beretta Australia to get the parts needed , after it took him 2 months to save for the cost of the parts

a 92 here ( 92 FS A1 say nowdays) i RRP at $1699 and sell at $1225 inc transfer plus 10% tax

but again complex , now say you had a Army and got these checked and serviced regular , no worries at all

but as a stand alone long term SHTF gun , get 5 of each small part and spring in case

again i think the 1911 though they wear too , are easier to service and maintain and will last longer ( M1911 A1 anyway othere? a a case by case basis ) and have fewer parts to wear and to replace making replacement simpler and possible to do grassroot long term if you had too

i'd not like to make beretta springs by hand from scratch . and them rollover bar things

but use one

SWEEET ;)

double tap heaven

brilliant to shoot when worked in to you

recoil balance is excellent but it can lead to heeling and shooting high if your a regular 9mm shooter as theres less rotational force with the beretta ( through more bits moving)

great to shoot , possibly the fastest sight plane reset under $1500 in 9mm if i could put it that way ( as a IPSC shooter )

a worry long term SHTF but something you can easily prep for too so negates that worry

but i do prefer the .45 acp in a 5 1/2 " or better

but if i was allowed a unlimited ammount of hand guns i'da grabbed a few , good point weapons

but i'm limited so only have a old beretta as a trade gun currently
 

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thanks a bunch Jack. nothing like a professional unbiased review to help me decide.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
i've a colt woodsman we've trained all the kids with but at its now 90 year old , i'll retire it to the C&R ticket and make it a safe queen and replace it with the Glock

any recommendations for model ? i cant get a model that allows caliber change ( another stupid rule we gotta get sorted ..)

cause theres way more out there than i've seen so far , so glockies let me know whats a good smallish .22 lr
 

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i'm not big on glocks. i like something with a thumb or grip safety at least. personally the 1911 is my favorite. i wanna try out the hi power as well. there's guys all over youtube that act like they're invincible and get in your face if you question them.
 

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i'm not big on glocks. i like something with a thumb or grip safety at least. personally the 1911 is my favorite. i wanna try out the hi power as well. there's guys all over youtube that act like they're invincible and get in your face if you question them.
That applies to 1911 fans also, and it isn't restricted to just youtube. You see plenty of both sides here on this forum and everywhere else.
 

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A very good review Jack. I have a Glock 19 and a Glock 27. The 19 I bought when they first came out here in the States and the 27 was my off duty carry when I was on the force. I like the Glock's I have for their accuracy and balance. Both of mine are flat shooting son-of-a-guns. The only thing I don't like is the trigger safety without a manual side safety. Every AD I saw when I was on the force involved a Glock. Maybe it was just the idiot handling it. I also like the Beretta's and my on duty carry was a Beretta 96 40cal.
Thanks for you unbiased review!

.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
see i know i can carry my 1911 , parachute into a ocean crawl through jungle cocked and locked , did so for years , and if you look at the mechanics you can see why .

i'd never feel comfortable do that with a glock ..

they are NOT forgiving when swapping mags with your finger in the guard ( DUH!!!!!) , the slide has a section where you can "walk" the trigger safe and disengage it ( maybe pre engage is a better term ??) , you drop a slide on a full clip , its then maybe you get a bang

i do not beleive this can be done by accident , people constantly cocking the weapon dropping the mag and cycling it can .,. ( stuffing about like a idiot we call it here ) i played hard with it, i did not trip it , i do think its possible

you can feel the mag safe via the trigger safe , same as the slide safe/ disconnector when they are actioned

all them bits the mag detector/disconnector/slidesafe/trigger safe/and their cross conections , add a dirty gun with soot build up or wear and its chances of going bang increase

what i mean , is you can fiddle with it and keep playing it you could create the environment to have a accident

day to day use , no i dont think so , ya'd have to be stuffing about with it to do anything , you can do the same with other brands too if your a idiot ..

only guy i know shot him self accidently here was stuffing about too , wont admit it , but folks where there :)

the guns always live and the horse always kicks

yes we can have fun with them but there far from toys and folks forget that and when caught out are embarassed

all tech and gripes aside

i'm getting one as a trainer and plinker for the grandies

i trust them to never handle a gun thats loaded unless they are ready to shoot it
 

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Thanks for the review on glock's in general Jack. I have basically the same feelings as you. They are good guns, they do go bang every time the trigger is pulled but do I want one? No. I prefer guns made of metal, as do you. That is why I carry a CZ75 Compact in the 9mm flavor, all steel. there is one comment that disturbed me that the glock guy told you.

we'd like to sell a new gun to our high end users once every 8 -10 years

we dont make them to last more than that for sales , but also so we can move our customers into the future as we are constantly updating and researching and improving the system
I've never heard of a factory glock guy, or for that matter any manufacture, admit that their guns are only made to last a specific timeframe. That is another reason I personally like steel guns. At leist i'll be able to pass them to the younger generations in my family and they'll still be good to shoot well after i'm gone.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
these folks are talking bisiness and its pretty straight at the higher levels

they discuss this in terms of holding costs, $ maintenance, and ROI ( return on investment)

i steel gun long term stills needs to be upkept , in a police situation that means equipment and staff as they dont train cops to service guns .. ( basic cleaning is all i seen )

the glock idea is to supply a gun that has a warrenty and maintenance agreement

, its like a extended warrenty , if any gun has issues you issue another ( they supply spares as well ) it gets sent back to the warranty provider, repaired or replaced and one put back in the spares to replace it

thats what glock offers ( civillian sales are a great bonus , but the design was for mass sales in this way)

long term , it may be cheaper , but rememebr they have to do it this way

it was as the only cheaper option to spending 30% more to buy a steel gun that will last 60 years in service as the 1911 does , to offset the cost , the gun is built around alternative funding model ( and to be as proprietary as possible )

when you look at the 1911 and some others and see what they are up against , you can see its a smart business option , again it dont suit military , but cops ? , yeah a good fit , cops ( sorry but i think most cops ) dont have the same experience or time in hand of military so a far as low cost to train and no local maintenance cost weapon is a good idea

its like leasing a truck or renting medium term to solve a bubble in your business

after the cyclones here a mate hired some gear and trucks rather than buy , the cyclone damage would be fixed in a few months and the boom in repair work would not last so he rented some and is in front

building companies hire long term scaffold and things as well , as its costly to maintain and replace

small government has a holding cost of maybe $140,000 a year for one armourer ( wages space tools insurance etc)

if they can get 1000 pistols to serve their cops with no maintinance costs for a 10 year cost of the same ...

thats the glock selling point

and if its a hassle they'll give you a new one ! 3 times in for repair , no questions asked replacement

or thats the gov deal i seen , and i think its ok and understand why so many PD's use em

dunno yet about personal warranties :)

even colt aint as good as you hope as a consumer at times cause its up to the local distributor to deal with that here

pOint being , they are hi tech but cheap to make , they can be replace cheaply if theres a hassle and require no skilled staff for this process to happen

the basic parts , are ok , barrels are lighter but they state these are not for P or +p loads to everyone

these are made for folks or gov who will shoot factory ammo every time , get the thing stripped and cleaned every 6 months or so , be fired 1000-2000 rounds a year plus ( i like this ) Emergency use ( read the literature, they are soo PC )

and this way these things will last 20 years no problems ( some will suffer more in Australia due to UV , but thats life here )

can i ask the cops here how many round they fire through their service pistols a year ??

2000 ?? i'll wager most dont shoot 500 a year , cops i know shoot personal guns more than service ones ..

some hard core range nuts like me might do more , so you buy a new barrel every 5-8 years

its cheap compared to most

looking at the info here

say i had a 10 year old one and the frame was ok but the barrel and internals are worn , a real high use , but well looked after gun

$490 would totally refurbish this ( parts and labour )

a total rebuild on a smith 40 all internals is almost the price of a new one ( parts and labour )

its a different business model than long lasting reliability , cars went the same way a bit

cheaper easier to replace parts rather expencive long lasting ones

maybe its a sign of the throw away society , but heck if it saves some tax dollars for the folks in the log run ,

go for it
 

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Discussion Starter #12
but heres a thought , if the steel gun makers got off their butts and did similar instead of high end and costly marketing

i think we'd see more steel guns in cops hands

i saw the smith offering had a nice gift box set of knife and torch to go with the gun..

bugger all about long term maintainable solutions ...

the glock folks talked hard savings and long term value and thats what budget conscious folks are looking at

and they do it well
 

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I have read all the reviews from the glock lovers and the haters alike. I have sold them in my shop. I have shot them. I still dont like them and I still wouldnt trade one good 1911 for a bucket of glocks. But I am glad you finally got a chance to see them first hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i aint trading the EAA or STI :)

but i can see why they are getting popular

my big worry is folks will think low maintinace = NONE and they'll have hassles then ..

no gun works well when gummed up full of junk

the sales pitch i see online , is worrying .. makes inexperienced folks think wrong

been looking at a few ..

but the ones i want i cant get here , we've models i cant see in the US stores

i cant see a .22 only in the US at all , you buy a 9mm and get the .22 kit

weve 2 models here but both the teens ..
 

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I own a Glock 34 9mm. I chose the 9mm because the ammo is cheaper to obtain. I also have a Colt Combat Commander, I'd much rather shoot the Glock, but that's me. I have nothing what so ever against the tried and true Colts but for me I'd much rather shoot my Glock. Note I used to own a Gold Cup 70 series, I traded it in years ago and I'm not missing it.
 
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