Might scratch an itch

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by sharps4590, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Messages:
    4,548
    Location:
    Missouri Ozarks
    On another board there's been some conversation about an old rim fire rolling block. I had a Pedersoli repro of a #1 RB in 45-70 some 30 years ago...not much of a rifle back then, in my opinion. I guess they were still figuring out American rifles. Anyway, that conversation prodded me into looking for a real one. I've been sort of lusting for a Swede in 12.7 X 44 but every time Simpsons got in a batch someone would buy all the goods ones before I would see them and those offered on the gun auction sites are too high. Found this one yesterday in 8 X 58RD...not a 12.7 but a good cartridge in its own right. Gonna call today and try to learn how "good" the bore is. It might come to live at my house....:D

    https://www.simpsonltd.com/products/z36318
     
    Kweeksdraw, BlackEagle, Broot and 6 others like this.
  2. howlnmad

    howlnmad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    17,832
    Location:
    Harriman, Tn
    That's nice :).
     
    dbcooper likes this.

  3. Twicepop

    Twicepop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    4,248
    Location:
    NW Ohio
    Looks like a good gun at a good price.
     
    maddog3355 and joe45c like this.
  4. jwdurf

    jwdurf Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    5,836
    Location:
    Rural Northern CA
    Keep us informed.
     
  5. Grizzley1

    Grizzley1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,455
    Location:
    Oregon.
    Hopefully the bore is in nice enough condition that we get to read a range report after you get the load dialed in. :)

    One of these days if I live long enough I'd like to find a cheap one with a good action and bad barrel and stock, it would give me a good excuse to make a barrel and do some whittling.
     
    dbcooper and joe45c like this.
  6. Old Guns

    Old Guns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2017
    Messages:
    915
    It looks good in the pictures. Was it built under contract as it differs a bit from a standard Remington. I would bet the bore is good as they tended to take much better care of guns then we did.
     
  7. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Messages:
    4,548
    Location:
    Missouri Ozarks
    OG, I'm not all that informed on the various RB's however, I think the Swede and Danish RB's were made over there as you mentioned, under contract. I want to say Husqvarna made them. I've been doing some reading on them and if what I read is correct when they changed from the 12.7 X 44R to the 8 X 58RD they replaced the pins, breech block and I think hammer with either harder steel or re-hardened them as well as re-hardening the receivers. I also think that one is a sporterized military rifle as most of those were. I have yet to learn if Husky marketed a sporter on its own.

    Some of the posts I've read about the rifle and cartridge on other sites show some impressive groups for a 130+ yr. old rifle. 'Bout time to call Simpsons!!!

    Edit: It's on the way...:D
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    The_Doctor, maddog3355, Broot and 4 others like this.
  8. Firpo

    Firpo Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,875
    Location:
    Yorba Linda, Ca
    Thanks Sharps, never heard of these guys before and it looks like I could lose several paychecks here. ;):p
     
    joe45c and Grizzley1 like this.
  9. grcsat

    grcsat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,594
    Location:
    far,far,North
    Welcome to the 8x58 RD rolling block club.
    The official designation of your rifle is " Model 1867/89 Swedish Sporter ". ( designated by the Swedish government and not me :))
    The 8x58rd is a good smokeless cartridge.

    At $295 if the barrel is any good , you got a good deal.
    Don't worry if either the hammer or the breach block may have a different serial number on one of the two parts because it is very common on this model. My hammer has a different number than the breach block , while my friend has a mismatched breach block. I think this happened to many of the rifles when they were stripped down for re-heat treating turning the rifles from Model 1867 to 1889. Hense that is why they are called Model 1867/89.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    Grizzley1 and joe45c like this.
  10. FRED J. WAHL

    FRED J. WAHL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Kissimmee, Florida in Winter, N.E. PA in summer
    Is good quality brass still available, or constructible from other cases? That caliber doesn't ring a familiarity bell--
     
    joe45c likes this.
  11. grcsat

    grcsat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,594
    Location:
    far,far,North
    Cases are normally made from 45-70 or 45-90 brass.
    I make mine from 45-70. They are a tiny bit short. Depending on the rifle , the rim has to be turned down usually 5 or 10 thou.
     

    Attached Files:

    joe45c likes this.
  12. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Messages:
    4,548
    Location:
    Missouri Ozarks
    Firpo, this is the 3rd or 4th rifle I've bought from them and they've been excellent to deal with. Galesburg, Illinois is about 4 hours from me and locally several "gun guys" have driven over to see their collection of militaria. According to my gunsmith, he's a Luger guy, it's worth the trip. Rumor is it's the largest Luger collection in the US.

    gr, I really wanted a 12.7 X 44R but all the ones they have are pretty rough, soooo...this 8 X 58RD is coming. I specifically asked about the bore and was told "sharp lands with light pitting throughout". Well...not pristine as I'd hoped but I have other "lightly pitted" barrels in old rifles that shoot quite well so, as you mentioned, at that price I thought it was worth a look. Simpsons has never told me wrong before and so far our definitions have matched. As subjective as descriptions are I'm mildly confident. I appreciate your comments about "numbers matching". Being former military rifles I wasn't very concerned about it, that stuff happens. I see you're using CH-4D dies. Have they been acceptable for your rifle? I have several sets of Dave's dies and they been as good, if not better, than anything else out there. Only problem I ever had was on my 9 X 71 Peterlongo and it wasn't their fault. It was a neck sizing issue they had no way of knowing as Dave told me he made the dies from a drawing. I sent them a couple fired cases and they made me a correct sizing die and gave it to me. I tried to pay them for it but they were having none of it.

    There's a lengthy thread on castboolits that covers the cartridge quite thoroughly. That thread has been going on for 10 years. One fella mentioned using 8 X 56R Hungarian brass, I think, and as with the 45-70 it was a bit short. I have a box each of 45-90 and 45-100 I might be willing to sacrifice for it, providing the rifle is acceptable. Another fella is using 7.62 X 54 Russian and it too is short. I didn't see anything in the thread about loads or forming brass that put me off the cartridge. Can't possibly require any more work than the 10.5 X 47R or 9 X 71 Peterlongo and I did both of them.

    Fred, I want to remember that in the castboolit thread mentioned one poster saying Bertram offered the brass for the 8 X 58RD but as with all things Bertram it is expensive. I haven't checked Bertram to see if they offer it. I have bought Bertram brass, out of desperation. The 40-82 WCF I bought had to have the necks turned for my rifle. The rest of it has been ok. I thought a bit sloppy but it worked and after some tinkering was acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Firpo, BlackEagle and joe45c like this.
  13. dbcooper

    dbcooper Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,994
    Location:
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    very sweet
     
    joe45c likes this.
  14. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Messages:
    4,548
    Location:
    Missouri Ozarks
    I hope so db. Simpsons is closed today and Monday so it won't go out until Tuesday or Wednesday. As it's an antique it will come straight to me so I hope to know by next weekend. If it's acceptable I have an 8mm, gas checked, 200 gr., bore riding, Accurate mold I really like though it may be a bit short. From what I understand 220 gr. + might be more desirable as those rifles apparently have a long throat. gr can perhaps speak to that for us. If it's a keeper then gathering material and supplies to form the brass and load for it begins.
     
    joe45c likes this.
  15. grcsat

    grcsat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,594
    Location:
    far,far,North
    I am using 175gr gas checked ( should have bought 200-225 gr molds) with a dia of 324. I suggest that you slug the bore as I have heard of different bore sizes from 323 all the way up to 328.
    With the chad dies , for me it is a single pass for forming the case.(pretty easy ,but you get sore arms after 50 or so cases :) )
    Hint. Use a shell holder made for this cartridge and not for the 45-70 when forming the cases. A|l so turn down the rims before you form.