My 45 minutes at the range today ( 1 2 )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ruffitt, Mar 5, 2003.

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  1. ruffitt

    ruffitt *TFF Admin Staff* In Heaven Now

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    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2576
    (11/26/01 4:29:00 pm)
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    Yep I said 45 minutes and that is exactly what I meant.

    Started out it was chilly (30 degrees give or take) but no wind down where I am so I thought what the hey - it's Monday so virtually nobody will be there and since I'm off work I might as well go out and shoot a few rounds off.

    Took the little 22 Marlin and both the 22 and 9mm Beretta's to do some practice with. By the time I got out there the sun was gone again and the wind was picking up. Stopped at the rangemasters trailer and signed in. She said you know where everything is (see it pays to be a woman - as you are remembered when you go) so I went down to the rifle range where I realized I'd forgotten ear protection and there was one guy shooting a Remington .280? so I decided to skip shooting the Marlin (my ears couldn't of handled much of his shooting). His gun looks just like my 30-06 (he has one of those too - neat looking gun). But I digress as usual.

    So I went into the shed and took a target (we get one free target with our fee) and borrowed a staple gun and walked over to the handgun range (nobody was there). Got everything set up and got out my Beretta's. By now it's getting windier and windier and not only did I not have ear plugs I didn't have a scarf and I didn't have any gloves (so now my hands are getting cold - duh). I decided to try shooting the 9mm right handed - big mistake as I only got 2 in the black out of 30+ rounds. For some reason I keep shooting low - it's got to be me and not the gun I think.

    Got tired of that and it's darn hard to load those 9mm bullets into the magazine when your hands are frozen. So decided I'd bring the little .22 out and play with it for a bit. 20+ rounds through it and while I hit a few more in the black I can see my day is going downhill fast - again I'm dead low. If I can figure out how to keep the gun from aiming for the groin I'll do fine - but right now that's where my shooting is going and I'd swear I was aiming at the bullseye - but no go.

    So I'm off to buy some gloves, going to hunt up my warm scarf and it looks like I'm going to be shooting minimally twice a month from now on instead of once a month (and if things don't improve it'll be every week).

    Hope you guys are having a great Monday and doing better than I am at the range!

    warpig883
    Moderator
    Posts: 1230
    (11/26/01 4:34:35 pm)
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    Sorry about your luck TLynn. We got to get bad days along with the good.

    I don't think I would want you shooting at me. Something about a woman who shoots for the groin gives me the chills.


    Why look'st thou so? With my cross bow I shot the Albatross.

    BlackGun
    Moderator
    Posts: 1799
    (11/26/01 4:43:51 pm)
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    Ouch! I pain as I visualize the sight of it all (sigh)
    rules for survival: Sight alignment, Breath control, & Trigger Squeeze
    BlackGUN

    Xracer
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1210
    (11/26/01 6:42:20 pm)
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    Hey, pretty soon the word will get out...."Don't mess with "T", or you'll be singin' soprano!"

    AGunguy
    Moderator
    Posts: 829
    (11/26/01 6:57:53 pm)
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    Dang it, TLynn...I wish the winter wasn't creapen up on us all. Its got me stopped cold too. I don't dare go outside right now with my plugged arteries. Stay warm inside and clean your guns and load ammo, its the sane thing to do right now.

    Gunguy

    Zigzag2
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1472
    (11/26/01 6:58:40 pm)
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    Hey TL, I'm going to stick something in the "Big Peoples" mail for you. Something a Old Friend of mine put together. I'm sure if you read and practice...your shooting will greatly improve.

    From what you write, it sounds as though you may be "breaking your wrist", a form of anticipation of the recoil.

    I hope it helps...

    Zig

    loader44
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 77
    (11/26/01 9:41:10 pm)
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    Sorry to here about the bust of a day. Been there, done that. Waited once for over an hour to get into the range, then found out the silhouette people had the range for an hour and a half, then when it was my time, I had forgotten my ammo, 22 miles home.

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2579
    (11/26/01 9:43:24 pm)
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    AGunguy - yeah it's getting cold but I'm going to be an idiot and keep shooting. Mom told me that my Aunt got me a quit lined leather jacket to go shooting in for Christmas and my uncle is giving me his shooting muffs (ear protection) as well.

    So I've just got to get some warm gloves and then I'll be out there (along with the scarf around my neck and face) and I'll keep practicing.

    ZigZag - I'm betting you are right - if I double hold the gun it is better - but I was seeing how well I could do shooting single hand (and it wasn't pretty).

    I'll take all the help I can get my friend - I need it. I can shoot pretty damn accurate with a rifle all things considering but for some reason handguns escape me.

    gpostal
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1252
    (11/26/01 10:08:09 pm)
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    practice practice practice ,t keep shooting one day it will just click ,and you wont remember when it didn't ,me personally I don't shoot in the cold ,if I cant give it 100% I don't want to do it ,the cold just adds to the frustration ,I might shoot once or twice over the winter out of cabin fever ,but even the years I didn't ,come summer I found out I wasn't any better or worse of a shot for missing a season

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2319
    (11/26/01 10:51:21 pm)
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    Yeah, GP is right, except that SOMETIMES just making noise and throwing lead downrange serves as a good stress reliever even if you DON'T hit anything...just pretend you're trying to scare 'em...

    When I forget plugs, I have sometimes wrapped a kleenex around an empty piece of brass and used it instead...not as good as real plugs, but better than nothing...

    I have two sets of muffs, and always but a new pack of plugs just about every time I shoot, and STILL have gone to the range with nothing...

    T, there's a neat target I used to see, and have used before, but I don't see around anymore, for bullseye shooters, where it's written right on the target what you are probably doing wrong, if you shoot 6:00 hold on the bull, wherever most of the rounds are grouped, there is a little writing saying "Breaking wrist" "Jerking trigger," etc, I can't remember what all the tips were...

    Maybe somebody will know where you could get a couple, they come in handy...

    I don't care WHAT anybody says, there is no such thing as a "natural" pistol shot, just some people get "adequate" with less practice than others...which is why you need to reload, too, I don't think ANYBODY can afford to buy only factory and afford to shoot enough to get "good" with a handgun...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    gpostal
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1254
    (11/27/01 10:18:12 am)
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    tackdriver.com polish

    www.tackdriver.com/targets.htm


    i think it is called correction target

    these are printable from the web site

    Edited by: gpostal at: 11/27/01 10:19:36 am

    southernfreedom
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 179
    (11/27/01 11:07:42 am)
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    TallTLynn said..."Started out it was chilly (30 degrees give or take) but no
    wind down where I am so I thought what the hey - it's Monday so virtually nobody will be there and
    since I'm off work I might as well go out and shoot a few rounds off."

    Yeah, that is exactly how it was here the other day but I kind of
    felt it would be a challenge to shoot in the cold wind. So did many others, much to my
    surprise. Who am I to complain about the cold and wind when deer hunters
    stay out there for hours freezing for a deer? The only thing bad about the range that day
    was the three spanish speaking aliens firing SIDEWAYS (not downrange). Idiots!


    Different name
    V.I.P. Forum Host
    Posts: 605
    (11/27/01 4:35:21 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: My 45 minutes at the range today
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    "T" havya HUGGED yer guns today? Since the task is difficult, we dare not relax; since our opportunities are brief, we dare not delay.
    Getchyerself agood sholder rest and a Barrel fitted mirror
    and asmuch as you can, muster-up some target tearing caring. And, shoot the hell out of the bullseye!
    Ready on tha Right Ready on tha Left?
    Charlie D

    shooter22
    Moderator
    Posts: 547
    (11/27/01 5:21:21 pm)
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    T, Goto: www.sportshooter.com/improving/index.htm

    and print the correction target! it is a very effective tool. click on the target you see, it will give you a printable target. If you need a left handed target, it is in the text under correctable targets. The right handed one is on this page.

    shooter22


    Edited by: shooter22 at: 11/27/01 5:29:16 pm

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2326
    (11/27/01 10:58:43 pm)
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    Yeah guys, that's similar to the one I used to see, but the one I'm talking about was about the size of a standard 25 yd slow-fire NRA target....

    The only trouble with this target though for a new shooter, (It was with me when I was new!) is that the terms STILL don't tell you EXACTLY what you are doing, or how to correct it...you STILL have to shoot with somebody that knows how to shoot AND how to teach for it to do what it's supposed to do...

    For example, how do you STOP "Heeling?"


    T, I remembered another trick we did...buy a couple of "Dummy rounds" at the next Gun show in your caliber, and load a few at random in your spare mags (Better is to have somebody ELSE load them so you are NEVER sure when,) mix up the mags, and shoot slow-fire groups.

    When the gun goes "Click" on the empty, and the muzzle moves up or down at all, you are "anticipating the recoil," the most common problem pistol shooters have. It's also called "flinching," which NO "Real" man will EVER admit to doing, but call it "anticipating recoil" and suddenly they admit it... LOL It's a macho thing I guess...

    You can "train" it away using the dummies, pretend EVERY round is one, and concentrate on making sure it doesn't move with each shot.

    We used to do it to each other, and kick the guy right in the Ass HARD if he moved on the click...made you learn real fast.

    The other way to do it is shoot a flintlock once in a while...LOL Click-Flash-.....Bang...

    Easy to do with revolvers too, just load one, spin the cylinder like Russian Roulette, then shoot a "6" shot group...

    Just make sure you paint the dummy orange or something, and don't store them near "real" ammo so you don't grab them some night by accident when you hear a "bump in the night..."


    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    shooter22
    Moderator
    Posts: 552
    (11/28/01 12:13:42 am)
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    I know what You are talking about Poilsh, But can't find it. These are a couple tips that help me:

    Flinching is the convulsive movement made just as the hammer falls that causes shots to miss the target, or strike anywhere from the 5 ring to the 8 ring. All shooters suffer from this malady at one time or another. When Joe Benner gets an eight he has flinched because he would never put pressure on his trigger with his sights aligned in the eight ring, (windy shooting excepted). Your progress in the competitive field of target shooting depends largely on your ability to overcome flinching. I include all such movements as "Bucking," "Jerking" in the general term "Flinching." Here is exactly what happens: If you know the exact moment your pistol is going to fire, your subconscious mind orders you to brace your body against the recoil, and you do so, resulting in a flinch. The remedy is to never know the exact instant the hammer will fall. Even then your subconscious mind will make brace, but the reaction time between the explosion and your bracing will allow the bullet to leave the barrel without being misdirected by your flinch.


    and:

    Top Eleven Bad Habits of Shooters
    Not Looking at the Sights. This quite frequently is listed as "looking at the target." A shooter may be focusing his eye on neither the sights nor the target, but since he does not see the target in clear focus he assumes he is looking at the sights. You must concentrate on sight alignment.
    Holding Too Long. Any adverse conditions that interrupt a shooter's ability to "hold" will cause him to delay his squeeze, waiting for conditions to better. The disturbing factor about this is that you will do it unconsciously; therefore, you must continuously ask yourself, am I being too particular?
    Improper Grip or Position. Suffice to say that you cannot fire a decent score with any gun at any range if you continually change your grip or position.
    Jerk or Heel. The application of pressure either with the trigger finger alone or in case of the heel, pushing with the heel of the hand at the same time. Apply pressure to the trigger straight to the rear and wait for the shot to break.
    Anticipation. Anticipation can cause muscular reflexes of an instant nature that so closely coincide with recoil that extreme difficulty is experienced in making an accurate call. Anticipation is also the sire to flinching.
    Loss of Concentration. If the shooter fails in his determination to apply positive pressure on the trigger while concentrating on the front sight his prior determination needs renewal and he should rest and start over.
    Anxiety. You work and work on a shot, meanwhile building up in your mind doubt about the shot being good. Finally you shoot just to get rid of that particular round so you may work on the others.
    Vacillation (Plain Laziness). This is a mental fault more than a physical one, which results in your accepting minor imperfections in your performance which you could correct if you worked a little harder. The end result being you hope you get a good shot. Just like you hope you will get a gratis tax refund, and you will get one just about as frequently as you get the other.
    Lack of Follow Through. Follow through is the subconscious attempt to keep everything just as it was at the time the shot broke. In other words you are continuing to fire the shot even after it is gone. Follow through is not to be confused with recovery. Merely recovering and holding on the target after the shot is no indication that you are following through.
    Lack of Rhythm. Hesitancy on the first shot or any subsequent shot in timed or rapid fire. Develop a good rhythm and then have the fortitude to employ it every case. Frequently many shooters will have fine rhythm until the last shot of a string and then hesitate, doctoring up that last shot.
    Match Pressure. If there are 200 competitors in a match, rest assured that there are 200 shooters suffering from match pressure. So what makes you think you are so different? If you are exerting all your mental energy toward executing the correct fundamentals rather than the arithmetic evaluation, your shooting match pressure will be what you feel when people congratulate you on a fine performance.

    both are from Bullseyepistol.com

    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 158
    (11/28/01 1:04:14 am)
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    hey! thanks everyone for the Correction Target link - that thing's great.
    I've received good instruction in the past, and pass it on whenever I can. That target will really help

    Rich

    warpig883
    Moderator
    Posts: 1259
    (11/28/01 6:15:24 am)
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    I learned this in the Army and still do it. Have a helper lay a dime flat and balanced on the end of the barrel. Aim and pull the trigger on a snap cap. Keep doing this until you can do it without the dime falling off. It works on the flinch and trigger squeeze technique. The last deer I shot I saw the buddit hit it throught the scope.
    Why look'st thou so? With my cross bow I shot the Albatross.

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2492
    (11/30/01 11:07:49 pm)
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    ZigZag - thank you for the info. I just glanced at it tonight but it looks like a very interesting read.

    Zigzag2
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1493
    (12/1/01 8:52:20 am)
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    You're welcome T,
    There has been some great replys to this post.
    Something else that's recommended to get (for example) is a Daisy 717 air pistol for practicing sight alignment and trigger control.
    Something you can do indoors when the weather will not allow you to practice comfortably out doors. You will be amazed with the improvements that can be made by practicing and following the basic fundamentals...
    AIM-HOLD-SQEEZE

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2925
    (12/1/01 8:58:50 am)
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    T, when it`s to cold to shoot:


    Stick tongue to gun barrel or receiver, if it sticks.........
     
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