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Discussion Starter #22
I think you can file a property damage claim with your neighbors insurance company. What kind of tree was that?
No one seems to know. The neighbor (my wife's cousin) moved there a couple years ago. They had it cut down because it was too close to their house . All I know so far is that was about 60 feet tall and had big leaves. Another neighbor thought it was a "Cottonwood". I tried looking at the Google map overhead ppic but the resolution wasn't good enough.

It's all on hold for a week or so now. I've got tendonitis and arthritis in my right hand and can't grip anything right now. Doc said lay off.
May have to get a professional to give me an estimate to finish.
 

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Use this to kill the root>


But be aware it might damage any other broad leaf plants that come into contact with that root. This is a VERY effective broad leaf weed and tree killer. It's RTU (Ready To Use), a small amount goes a long way. It needs to be applied to a healthy part of the root, a sucker would work more than one sucker would be best. Put this in a mister bottle and cut into the root and cut a few suckers off and mist lightly creating a red film. A shoe polish dauber bottle works great too, better actually because then there will be no drift. This stuff is potent!

And then as was mentioned before, just cut the root out on each side of the drive, don't worry about the rest, but coat the ends with Tordon too! By the time the root rots the house will be torn down. All that needs to be done now is to get it dead.

It looks like the concrete is mostly out of your way. If not, and your hands and back feel up to it, a Stihl quickie saw with a diamond blade will cut that old concrete like butter. Rental companies will have one, (or a Partner or Husqvarna saw) any brand that will cut concrete will do. Hand held is much easier than a dedicated wheeled unit on uneven concrete like it looks like you have.

Stihl is what I'm familiar with so I know the handheld quickie saw can be equipped with a small wheel kit to rest the weight of the machine (mostly) on the ground. These machines on a good day are back breakers...Also, have a hose ready to hook to it to cut down the dust.

In addition, they might (should) have a demo blade available for it that will make short work of that root without worrying about nicking the concrete. A demo blade is not for the faint of heart unless they improved them, they are super aggressive and will pull you off balance if you aren't ready.

Diamond blade equipped>

Demo Blade example (very aggressive!)>



The blade will not cut completely through the root so you will have to create a large notch to get the head down into to finish the cut from the top.

Don't forget the tordon, put a film on everything that was cut open that stays in the ground.

Good luck!

PS- I've always hated getting roots out without machinery like an excavator. If you can afford a small zero turn excavator life would be much easier. But those don't rent cheap. A couple hundred dollars a day and then if you've never operated one the time will be wasted.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
After a bit of research this morning I do believe that it was a Sycamore tree. There is another one in the neighbors yard down near the end of my drive way and I uncovered a shallow root along the fence and it is identical. The leaves match also. Their very aggressive roots are known for doing exactly what has happened here. They should not be planted or allowed to grow in an urban area or near homes. The remaining tree is about 60 feet tall, but it has a lot of open yard around it
 

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After a bit of research this morning I do believe that it was a Sycamore tree. There is another one in the neighbors yard down near the end of my drive way and I uncovered a shallow root along the fence and it is identical. The leaves match also. Their very aggressive roots are known for doing exactly what has happened here. They should not be planted or allowed to grow in an urban area or near homes. The remaining tree is about 60 feet tall, but it has a lot of open yard around it
I love Sycamores! I miss them because they don't grow very good this far north. They do grow though.

Many a sidewalk and curbstone in the St. Louis County and city area were heaved because of the root systems of these trees. The city especially planted them between the sidewalks and street to form a canopy.

Their smell after a spring or fall rain is unmatched! The leaves are a big problem but make good mulch. They also shed a lot of little branch's IIRC. They are reasonably quick growing, are not too soft or weak, and they don't shed sap in the spring.

But as was noticed here, they have a shallow root system that is often larger than their drip line. They are a nuisance tree these days.

Good luck with the roots, I used that tordon to remove an old fence line of trees and to kill unwanted maples and mulberries around my hay field. I also use it for thistle, burdock, and various nightshade weeds. Spot applications only. I had Morning glory grow in my hay a few years ago. Pretty flowers, toxic to horses in very small amounts. Cut a few of the growing stems near the ground and soak them with Tordon, ...gone in a matter of weeks. Never came back either. The stuff just works.

The biggest tree I killed with it was about 20" in diameter. I used an axe to lightly ring it through the outer bark first, then soaked that open ring. Tree was showing sign about five or six days later. Dead by the fall.
 

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There is that distinct possibility. However, quickie saws are pretty safe, not like a chainsaw. But like I said before, a demo blade is not for the faint of heart. I don't mean that in a bad way.

Anyone that can lift and start one can use a diamond blade on concrete. Just rest the spinning blade on the concrete and start cutting. However, these demo blades might not even be rented because they can cut anything and are hard to control. If it's in a building or any other structure a demo blade can likely cut it. However, the cost of one is pretty high so renting one will be too. A diamond blade was spendy back in the day, but IIRC a demo blade was about three times as much. Assuming they rent blades, not all rental companies will rent blades with the saw for liability reasons. That would put this entire idea out the door. A good diamond blade used to cost about $300.

The last time I used a demo blade was on a 16" saw cutting through an old wooden bridge deck. 4" planks, creosoted, with spikes and nails everywhere in it. I was cutting 10 one foot (plus some) square holes to drive 10" H-piling through to reinforce the bridge because the existing wooden pilings had rotted too much and it wasn't economically feasible to replace the entire bridge since it only served two families. 10 holes equaled 40 plus feet of cutting. That saw wore me out trying to hold it back. If I didn't hold it back it would have grabbed and killed the saw, or yanked it out of my hands or me off my feet and possibly over the edge. It was only a twenty foot drop but I'm pretty sure the stop at the bottom might have hurt some.

Anyway, short of hiring a crew that has digging equipment to do it, this is in my experience, the next easiest way to do it. You hopefully won't have to dig under the root, you won't have to worry about dulling chains, you should be able to cut it out within an hour working at an average to slow pace.

The diamond blade will cut through that 4-6 inches of concrete in about 10 minutes depending on how wide. The hardest part will be pulling that heavy root out of the hole since it will still have tendrils down from it on the bottom side.

For that, never underestimate 6 2x4's in a tripod (three legs of T'd 2x4's bolted together at the top) and a come along.

I miss construction...talking about this brings back good memories of hard work when I was capable of doing hard work...
 

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Good Morning...Just had a 'Brain-F***' from my days when I had my drain cleaning service
and roots in the main lines, I'd recommend a product called ROOT-OX available at hardware
stores and garden shops...It was copper sulphate...used religiously, it quelled the regrowth
of the roots in the main lines..Chief


Copper Sulfate Use
You can buy copper sulfate crystals at most garden supply centers and many drug stores. Pour 1/2 cup of crystals into your toilet and repeatedly flush it until all they are gone. It is better to space the small treatments over a two-week period than to give the roots a single large dose on one day.
 

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Root rot in any form won't do anything in this case. The root is still living. All the root rot stuff is is fertilizer (potassium nitrate, ammonium nitrate, urea, or other forms of nitrogen fertilizer). Nitrogen promotes decay because it helps feed the bacterium and other microorganisms that feed on dead cellulose not live. Besides, rotting a root takes time, often a lot of time.

Goofy has a good plan, but if I'm reading this correctly there is a budget and that budget might not allow the rental of a backhoe, especially a backhoe that also needs an operator to come with it. Excavators and backhoes are not hard to operate, they are, however, very hard to operate efficiently and safely, that takes time and practice, beside there is house connected to the driveway there on the right in picture, in the hands of a novice the wall might just disappear.

The best option here is more expensive than just renting a backhoe, it's hiring a contractor to do all the work from removing the root to placing the concrete and finishing the dirt work and cleaning up the mess. But that will be thousands of dollars. The new concrete alone will be the biggest expense. The root will take a contractor about an hour or so to remove.

Before starting this removal process it's wise to have locates done since it's so close to the house. The contractor will have to do one anyway since some form of digging will be happening.

My credentials are 25 years as an heavy equipment operator, crane operator, and all around laborer. I worked for a small independent contractor with six full time field workers, the owner was a structural engineer. We built Butler buildings early on in my career there but we/I also built bridges, concrete storage tanks, waste water additions and refurbishments, laid miles of ductile iron pipe, built pre-cast tip up buildings, built parking lots, and dabbled in some residential spec housing flat work. I've dug basements, bullpits to put bridge piers and abutments in, demolished bridges, and torn down complete brick buildings. I also lifted many small farm sized wind gens. I did all this with seat of the pants equipment. No modern technology at all.

I'm certified to 90 tons in friction and hydraulic cranes. Not really big, but it was truck mounted (11' wide by 65' long-91,000+lbs road weight- an OLD Lima 5 axle crane) and I also had to drive it and set it up on site, plus transport the boom and counterweights myself. I was also the sight supervisor, and the one that built forms when I wasn't in the machinery.

Anyway, I also have 13 acres that I cleared with one Oliver 1755 tractor and a box blade, a stihl chainsaw, chains, a sawzall, and an axe.

Which brings me to another point, sawzall. Get one from Harbor Freight, buy the longest rough cut blades you can find (generally 12") buy many of them. And go to work on that root. I'm not sure why I forgot how handy this was for cutting roots, blades are cheaper than chainsaw chains and the gravel won't dull them quite as fast. But you will go through a lot of them. BTDT.
 

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Root rot in any form won't do anything in this case. The root is still living. All the root rot stuff is is fertilizer (potassium nitrate, ammonium nitrate, urea, or other forms of nitrogen fertilizer). Nitrogen promotes decay because it helps feed the bacterium and other microorganisms that feed on dead cellulose not live. Besides, rotting a root takes time, often a lot of time.

Goofy has a good plan, but if I'm reading this correctly there is a budget and that budget might not allow the rental of a backhoe, especially a backhoe that also needs an operator to come with it. Excavators and backhoes are not hard to operate, they are, however, very hard to operate efficiently and safely, that takes time and practice, beside there is house connected to the driveway there on the right in picture, in the hands of a novice the wall might just disappear.

The best option here is more expensive than just renting a backhoe, it's hiring a contractor to do all the work from removing the root to placing the concrete and finishing the dirt work and cleaning up the mess. But that will be thousands of dollars. The new concrete alone will be the biggest expense. The root will take a contractor about an hour or so to remove.

Before starting this removal process it's wise to have locates done since it's so close to the house. The contractor will have to do one anyway since some form of digging will be happening.

My credentials are 25 years as an heavy equipment operator, crane operator, and all around laborer. I worked for a small independent contractor with six full time field workers, the owner was a structural engineer. We built Butler buildings early on in my career there but we/I also built bridges, concrete storage tanks, waste water additions and refurbishments, laid miles of ductile iron pipe, built pre-cast tip up buildings, built parking lots, and dabbled in some residential spec housing flat work. I've dug basements, bullpits to put bridge piers and abutments in, demolished bridges, and torn down complete brick buildings. I also lifted many small farm sized wind gens. I did all this with seat of the pants equipment. No modern technology at all.

I'm certified to 90 tons in friction and hydraulic cranes. Not really big, but it was truck mounted (11' wide by 65' long-91,000+lbs road weight- an OLD Lima 5 axle crane) and I also had to drive it and set it up on site, plus transport the boom and counterweights myself. I was also the sight supervisor, and the one that built forms when I wasn't in the machinery.

Anyway, I also have 13 acres that I cleared with one Oliver 1755 tractor and a box blade, a stihl chainsaw, chains, a sawzall, and an axe.

Which brings me to another point, sawzall. Get one from Harbor Freight, buy the longest rough cut blades you can find (generally 12") buy many of them. And go to work on that root. I'm not sure why I forgot how handy this was for cutting roots, blades are cheaper than chainsaw chains and the gravel won't dull them quite as fast. But you will go through a lot of them. BTDT.
Safety?
 

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What? It's construction equipment, it's as safe as common sense can make it. Again, I'm old school construction, when common sense and not OSHA or any other organization stifled work in order to be 100% safe. Ever wonder why everything costs so much these days? Thank those safety organizations. Going to war and being shot at isn't safe, even with all the gear that weighs them down. Construction is different, obviously, but it's still not for the wimps of today, unfortunately, it's getting closer to being for the wimps of today.

The Mommy's insist that no one ever gets hurt for any reason (look at any school playground, you'll notice many of things we had in the 50's-?? are not out there anymore), so they badger the government 'men' enough that those government 'men' bow their heads in total compliance and say yes'm. In addition to more insurance companies calling the shots.

The term "in an abundance of caution" torques me. As does the term "I don't want this to ever happen to anybody else". So everyone suffers to save the few idiots that aren't responsible enough.

But I digress...

So, yes, that blade isn't the safest, but it is the most effective. It's perfectly safe (just like an excavator is) in the hands of somebody that knows how to use it. Kinda like a firearm. It's not as unsafe as a chainsaw actually since I've never experienced a kickback that turned the entire saw end for end in order to be hit with the blade. Just use common sense. Don't try to hog material. A gentle touch and let the teeth do the work. Keep your feet in a fighting stance just like using a chainsaw. If the tendency to stand square with or perpendicular to your work is how one uses a chainsaw they are an accident waiting to happen anyway. Standing that way for above shoulder work is acceptable, but below waist line is totally dangerous. Common sense...
 

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Discussion Starter #36
All the cuts the have been done so far have been with a sawzall. I have worn out, bent, and broken multiple blades already, will get more. The biggest problem with the sawzall is the 9 inch blades are too short for the big root at the available angles. Any thing longer will be awkward in the confined space.

A little left hand digging to try to get under the root found another 3-4 inch root directly underneath the big one. :(

Don't ask me my current opinion of Sycamore trees. Especially in "polite" company.
 

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All the cuts the have been done so far have been with a sawzall. I have worn out, bent, and broken multiple blades already, will get more. The biggest problem with the sawzall is the 9 inch blades are too short for the big root at the available angles. Any thing longer will be awkward in the confined space.

A little left hand digging to try to get under the root found another 3-4 inch root directly underneath the big one. :(

Don't ask me my current opinion of Sycamore trees. Especially in "polite" company.
Have you tried digging with water to expose enough root to cut, trust me I'm lazy;). From your photo it looks like your dealing with sand, silt with some small rocks. If so water will cut through it quickly. Get that area exposed, a chainsaw will cut those roots but you need to get as much dirt clear as possible. A carbide chain will save time as you will not have to stop and sharpen the chain often as is always necessary when cutting dirty wood. It will still dull in dirt but not nearly as quickly as the standard chains, get that root as clean as possible. You may find with the jet you can get a big enough area open to use a good old fashioned hand saw, they still cut good if sharp.:p
Whatever tools you utilize you will be time ahead if you take the extra time to clear a big enough hole to work in.
 

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How did the Demonrats miss banning that one? I've got several bottles of the stuff, but have no trees I want to remove. It has other uses...:D
What? It's construction equipment, it's as safe as common sense can make it. Again, I'm old school construction, when common sense and not OSHA or any other organization stifled work in order to be 100% safe. Ever wonder why everything costs so much these days? Thank those safety organizations. Going to war and being shot at isn't safe, even with all the gear that weighs them down. Construction is different, obviously, but it's still not for the wimps of today, unfortunately, it's getting closer to being for the wimps of today.

The Mommy's insist that no one ever gets hurt for any reason (look at any school playground, you'll notice many of things we had in the 50's-?? are not out there anymore), so they badger the government 'men' enough that those government 'men' bow their heads in total compliance and say yes'm. In addition to more insurance companies calling the shots.

The term "in an abundance of caution" torques me. As does the term "I don't want this to ever happen to anybody else". So everyone suffers to save the few idiots that aren't responsible enough.

But I digress...

So, yes, that blade isn't the safest, but it is the most effective. It's perfectly safe (just like an excavator is) in the hands of somebody that knows how to use it. Kinda like a firearm. It's not as unsafe as a chainsaw actually since I've never experienced a kickback that turned the entire saw end for end in order to be hit with the blade. Just use common sense. Don't try to hog material. A gentle touch and let the teeth do the work. Keep your feet in a fighting stance just like using a chainsaw. If the tendency to stand square with or perpendicular to your work is how one uses a chainsaw they are an accident waiting to happen anyway. Standing that way for above shoulder work is acceptable, but below waist line is totally dangerous. Common sense...
I spent my time in the Army and survived was shot at I spent about 35 years in worked in and out of construction from below ground to more than a thousand feet
There is that distinct possibility. However, quickie saws are pretty safe, not like a chainsaw. But like I said before, a demo blade is not for the faint of heart. I don't mean that in a bad way.

Anyone that can lift and start one can use a diamond blade on concrete. Just rest the spinning blade on the concrete and start cutting. However, these demo blades might not even be rented because they can cut anything and are hard to control. If it's in a building or any other structure a demo blade can likely cut it. However, the cost of one is pretty high so renting one will be too. A diamond blade was spendy back in the day, but IIRC a demo blade was about three times as much. Assuming they rent blades, not all rental companies will rent blades with the saw for liability reasons. That would put this entire idea out the door. A good diamond blade used to cost about $300.

The last time I used a demo blade was on a 16" saw cutting through an old wooden bridge deck. 4" planks, creosoted, with spikes and nails everywhere in it. I was cutting 10 one foot (plus some) square holes to drive 10" H-piling through to reinforce the bridge because the existing wooden pilings had rotted too much and it wasn't economically feasible to replace the entire bridge since it only served two families. 10 holes equaled 40 plus feet of cutting. That saw wore me out trying to hold it back. If I didn't hold it back it would have grabbed and killed the saw, or yanked it out of my hands or me off my feet and possibly over the edge. It was only a twenty foot drop but I'm pretty sure the stop at the bottom might have hurt some.

Anyway, short of hiring a crew that has digging equipment to do it, this is in my experience, the next easiest way to do it. You hopefully won't have to dig under the root, you won't have to worry about dulling chains, you should be able to cut it out within an hour working at an average to slow pace.

The diamond blade will cut through that 4-6 inches of concrete in about 10 minutes depending on how wide. The hardest part will be pulling that heavy root out of the hole since it will still have tendrils down from it on the bottom side.

For that, never underestimate 6 2x4's in a tripod (three legs of T'd 2x4's bolted together at the top) and a come along.

I miss construction...talking about this brings back good memories of hard work when I was capable of doing hard work...
I thank it best if I not answer you post. Tom T
 
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