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I used to run a small concrete company. Once you've killed the root system, you need to carefully have the root that destroyed your driveway removed. Hopefully the root won't be under your house foundation.

Once you have to root out from under your driveway you'll have to have the soil packed down and re-pour the concrete driveway. Don't know anything about your local conditions, but you might have to lay down a layer of pea gravel to form a base for the cement. Check around for local cement contractors and get at least 4 bids. Check for references. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Have you tried digging with water to expose enough root to cut, trust me I'm lazy;). From your photo it looks like your dealing with sand, silt with some small rocks. If so water will cut through it quickly. Get that area exposed, a chainsaw will cut those roots but you need to get as much dirt clear as possible. A carbide chain will save time as you will not have to stop and sharpen the chain often as is always necessary when cutting dirty wood. It will still dull in dirt but not nearly as quickly as the standard chains, get that root as clean as possible. You may find with the jet you can get a big enough area open to use a good old fashioned hand saw, they still cut good if sharp.:p
Whatever tools you utilize you will be time ahead if you take the extra time to clear a big enough hole to work in.

I have no way to drain water without pumping it out right now. The hole is virtually surrounded by concrete except a little gap by the fence. I will see if I can exploit that but it will have to be dug down with a garden trowel for several feet.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Made some progress.

upload_2020-6-4_13-16-30.png


upload_2020-6-4_13-19-56.png


Had to cut the root at the concrete line, took several days. Three and half feet long (the cut) and up to 13 inch diameter. Used several 12 in. sawzall blades and a 16 inch drill bit for the last inch. That is some of the hardest wood I have encountered.
With the help of my wife's 16 yo cousin ( who had some great ideas) we got it loose and drug it out of the hole. Now looking at what to do with the other half. It seems to be very solidly anchored under the concrete.

Going to apply some more root killer/poison to the cut surfaces
 

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What kind of tree is the source of this monstrosity?

I have heard of Weeping Willows (and Sams too) sending out roots that travel very long ways to get water, break pipes, destroy foundations, concrete slabs and so on.
 

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I spent my time in the Army and survived was shot at I spent about 35 years in worked in and out of construction from below ground to more than a thousand feet


I thank it best if I not answer you post. Tom T
Not trying to cause a ruckuss, but what is your point? My point wasn't about any single person being shot at, just a comparison of two singularly dangerous jobs. I have been shot at by the way, it just wasn't overseas. It was right here in Iowa while I was doing my regular job. 6 rounds aimed at me, two hit too close. Not nearly the same as enduring it on a daily basis for months I know. But again, that wasn't my point.

Danger is oftentimes in the eye of the beholder. What might be routine for one person seems outlandishly dangerous to another. Like you working at 1000feet. I can only assume three things with that statement, you worked high steel, you jumped out of airplanes at too low an altitude, or you climbed communication towers.

What I was doing in construction on a near daily basis would NEVER be condoned in a larger city even back in my day. Common sense can trump a lot of dangerous situations. It's ignorance that gets folks in trouble, or bravado, or even peer pressure.

A 18 year old kid new to a different company than the one I worked for got killed because of peer pressure on the job. He was afraid to climb scaffolding. That's not uncommon. But he was goaded into it by all the other guys somehow because I think he didn't want to admit he was that scared. He got four stories up and lost his grip on the bars and fell onto concrete. Back then there was zero requirements for stairs on scaffolding. You climbed the ends or however you felt comfortable. I don't know about that company but in ours we seldom tied scaffolding off to anything below about 5 tiers high (roughly 40'). We never tied ourselves off, we used structural 2x12's for planking. Just everyything we did would now be an OSHA violation, maybe back then too...we seldom had OSHA come around these small towns and when they did, word traveled fast and we'd get the rest of the day off. You see all the construction companies shutting gates at whatever hour of the day the word came around that OSHA was in town.

This is my point... Lots of things can cause harm if used incorrectly, lots of things can cause death, the crux of all my statements is that one should not rush to use any tools like a pro until experience is gained. But experience will never be gained if we prevent the tool from being used in the first place. Experience is akin to common sense but doesn't replace it. However, old construction workers that still have everything God borne them with (all body parts) likely had common sense before they gained the experience.

Nevertheless, having one doesn't mean the other comes naturally or easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
What kind of tree is the source of this monstrosity?

I have heard of Weeping Willows (and Sams too) sending out roots that travel very long ways to get water, break pipes, destroy foundations, concrete slabs and so on.
BACK ON SUBJECT

We believe it was a Sycamore tree. Neighbor says Sweet Gum but the leaves are the wrong shape. There is another one about 40 feet further down the driveway, again on the other side of the fence. It's about 50 feet tall and I have found roots going across my back yard and down along the fence. Right now I suspect that some of the smaller roots in the hole I'm working in are coming from the second tree. They are paralleling the fence and driveway. I'm going to try to kill those roots and see what develops. Neighbor (wife's cousin) said they don't care.
The roots in the hole were complex with numerous merges and cross overs. I'm going to flip over at least one more section of concrete to extract another section of 4-5 inch roots.
Water source may have been part of the problem. I have removed numerous soaker hoses from the tangled mess of vines ( Morning glory, Ivy and Grape) that covered 50 % of the driveway. Found more up next to the house the "flower garden" between the house and drive.

I guess a little background might help. I just bought this house in Feb. It had not been lived in for 17 years. Just "maintained" by the lady that owned it. Evidently much of the maintenance was done by her current husband and/or lowest bidder. The lawn was maintained by another neighbor that thought he was helping her out. I payed well under the appraisal, but now believe I probably paid $20K too much still. I was aware of many of the possible problems, but it had the space I needed and in a very good location. Over time with some needed updates the value very possibly could double but it's going to be a lot of work. After the drive is done, then I plan on siding and windows. After that maybe start replacing the brightly colored SHAG carpeting:rolleyes::lol:

Once again I appreciate all the great advice I've received from all you folks. It really helps.
 

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Hey north tex thanks for the reply and I wish you all the best. Not to compound the issue but when I had several Norway Maples removed from my back yard one of the side effects was that when the roots finally rotted the ground collapsed to such a major extent that I to have several tons of top soil delivered to even out the ground.
 

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Made some progress.

View attachment 220628

View attachment 220630

Had to cut the root at the concrete line, took several days. Three and half feet long (the cut) and up to 13 inch diameter. Used several 12 in. sawzall blades and a 16 inch drill bit for the last inch. That is some of the hardest wood I have encountered.
With the help of my wife's 16 yo cousin ( who had some great ideas) we got it loose and drug it out of the hole. Now looking at what to do with the other half. It seems to be very solidly anchored under the concrete.

Going to apply some more root killer/poison to the cut surfaces
Man North Tex that thing looks like it came from the leg of some type of Dinosaur! That's a heck of a crater you have there now. Looks like you have lots of work a head of you yet. good luck.
 

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BACK ON SUBJECT

We believe it was a Sycamore tree. Neighbor says Sweet Gum but the leaves are the wrong shape. There is another one about 40 feet further down the driveway, again on the other side of the fence. It's about 50 feet tall and I have found roots going across my back yard and down along the fence. Right now I suspect that some of the smaller roots in the hole I'm working in are coming from the second tree. They are paralleling the fence and driveway. I'm going to try to kill those roots and see what develops. Neighbor (wife's cousin) said they don't care.
The roots in the hole were complex with numerous merges and cross overs. I'm going to flip over at least one more section of concrete to extract another section of 4-5 inch roots.
Water source may have been part of the problem. I have removed numerous soaker hoses from the tangled mess of vines ( Morning glory, Ivy and Grape) that covered 50 % of the driveway. Found more up next to the house the "flower garden" between the house and drive.

I guess a little background might help. I just bought this house in Feb. It had not been lived in for 17 years. Just "maintained" by the lady that owned it. Evidently much of the maintenance was done by her current husband and/or lowest bidder. The lawn was maintained by another neighbor that thought he was helping her out. I payed well under the appraisal, but now believe I probably paid $20K too much still. I was aware of many of the possible problems, but it had the space I needed and in a very good location. Over time with some needed updates the value very possibly could double but it's going to be a lot of work. After the drive is done, then I plan on siding and windows. After that maybe start replacing the brightly colored SHAG carpeting:rolleyes::lol:

Once again I appreciate all the great advice I've received from all you folks. It really helps.
I am very happy it is working out for you. Jobs like that can be a killer as was said some where ask some one who does ground or foundation work how o fill it in and compact it. Sounds like you have a good helper to. Above all be safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
Think it's about time to finish out this thread. It's only 5 months old. had a spell where my phone and lap top stopped communicating after an update. ... Anyway:
Got my driveway back to usable though it still isn't "fixed".

This what it looked like when I got that part of the main root out
237624
237625


The two pieces of concrete at the bottom each pic had to be flipped and more root system cut out. Then I refilled the hole with rock and dirt , packed it down for a few days and leveled it to follow the contour.
Then I reassembled the the concrete puzzle. Had to use crow bars, levers, and sweat to get them into
position.
237627


Drove on it for a couple of weeks to get everything settled. I then took bagged concrete and filled all the cracks and beveled the ridges to a less rough condition. So far the only place that has shown any cracking is where it joins with the other half that has not had the root removed. Been driving on it since mid June and is holding well for now. I know it will have to have a more permanent repair eventually.

This is much of what came out from under the concrete. I'm done with it for this year.
237628


THE END (for now) Thanks to everyone for the advice and ideas.
 

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View attachment 218836

Don't stumble up my driveway in the twilight, especially if you've had a couple.

That is a tree root. Tree (neighbors) is long gone

Recently bought this place and the 15 foot wide concrete driveway was buckled . I started to repair it. Boy do I have a problem. That bulge in the "belly" is 18 - 20 inches thick and right up against the next section of concrete. Concrete is raised about 8 inches. I'm going to ruin some saw blades. Then I get to flip over the other half of the concrete and do it again. Don't know yet how I'm going to get under the root. Root does extend under the house.

Wish me luck and lots of ingenuity.
If it goes under the house, I think you better kill it.

Water can be used to easily jet under objects, just don't compromise your house foundation. You may be surprised how quickly the water will move materials, depends on pressure, volume and just what you are digging in.
Test it with your garden hose with a nozzle. You can then make a jet with pipe to work under that root. Not there but I would cut that root on both sides and jet under it, pulling it out by hand, come along or winch. If using mechanical means to pull the root out watch your rigging and think about were it will go if something let's loose.
If you can jet it a bit on the end you will pull to before rigging. Rig it up and get a load on the root. Go to the other side and jet twords the other side with your lance/ jet. With luck she will move. You may have to come up on the rigging a few times and jet to move it completely free as the rigging relaxes. Don't get in a hurry and stay out of the line of fire of the rigging that has a bind.
Maybe I'm all wet but from what I understand this is how I would approach this. Be safe and take your time jetting and rigging. I am not there and cannot see there for understanding every aspect, this is a suggestion but you are responsible for your safety and damage to property.
Preasure washer msybe?
 

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Discussion Starter #55
I found the edit button now but I don't know how this happened....LOL
 
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There is that distinct possibility. However, quickie saws are pretty safe, not like a chainsaw. But like I said before, a demo blade is not for the faint of heart. I don't mean that in a bad way.

Anyone that can lift and start one can use a diamond blade on concrete. Just rest the spinning blade on the concrete and start cutting. However, these demo blades might not even be rented because they can cut anything and are hard to control. If it's in a building or any other structure a demo blade can likely cut it. However, the cost of one is pretty high so renting one will be too. A diamond blade was spendy back in the day, but IIRC a demo blade was about three times as much. Assuming they rent blades, not all rental companies will rent blades with the saw for liability reasons. That would put this entire idea out the door. A good diamond blade used to cost about $300.

The last time I used a demo blade was on a 16" saw cutting through an old wooden bridge deck. 4" planks, creosoted, with spikes and nails everywhere in it. I was cutting 10 one foot (plus some) square holes to drive 10" H-piling through to reinforce the bridge because the existing wooden pilings had rotted too much and it wasn't economically feasible to replace the entire bridge since it only served two families. 10 holes equaled 40 plus feet of cutting. That saw wore me out trying to hold it back. If I didn't hold it back it would have grabbed and killed the saw, or yanked it out of my hands or me off my feet and possibly over the edge. It was only a twenty foot drop but I'm pretty sure the stop at the bottom might have hurt some.

Anyway, short of hiring a crew that has digging equipment to do it, this is in my experience, the next easiest way to do it. You hopefully won't have to dig under the root, you won't have to worry about dulling chains, you should be able to cut it out within an hour working at an average to slow pace.

The diamond blade will cut through that 4-6 inches of concrete in about 10 minutes depending on how wide. The hardest part will be pulling that heavy root out of the hole since it will still have tendrils down from it on the bottom side.

For that, never underestimate 6 2x4's in a tripod (three legs of T'd 2x4's bolted together at the top) and a come along.

I miss construction...talking about this brings back good memories of hard work when I was capable of doing hard work...
You put that blade on a quicky and you can do some damage.

I found the edit button now but I don't know how this happened....LOL
I can't find it either.

Not trying to cause a ruckuss, but what is your point? My point wasn't about any single person being shot at, just a comparison of two singularly dangerous jobs. I have been shot at by the way, it just wasn't overseas. It was right here in Iowa while I was doing my regular job. 6 rounds aimed at me, two hit too close. Not nearly the same as enduring it on a daily basis for months I know. But again, that wasn't my point.

Danger is oftentimes in the eye of the beholder. What might be routine for one person seems outlandishly dangerous to another. Like you working at 1000feet. I can only assume three things with that statement, you worked high steel, you jumped out of airplanes at too low an altitude, or you climbed communication towers.

What I was doing in construction on a near daily basis would NEVER be condoned in a larger city even back in my day. Common sense can trump a lot of dangerous situations. It's ignorance that gets folks in trouble, or bravado, or even peer pressure.

A 18 year old kid new to a different company than the one I worked for got killed because of peer pressure on the job. He was afraid to climb scaffolding. That's not uncommon. But he was goaded into it by all the other guys somehow because I think he didn't want to admit he was that scared. He got four stories up and lost his grip on the bars and fell onto concrete. Back then there was zero requirements for stairs on scaffolding. You climbed the ends or however you felt comfortable. I don't know about that company but in ours we seldom tied scaffolding off to anything below about 5 tiers high (roughly 40'). We never tied ourselves off, we used structural 2x12's for planking. Just everyything we did would now be an OSHA violation, maybe back then too...we seldom had OSHA come around these small towns and when they did, word traveled fast and we'd get the rest of the day off. You see all the construction companies shutting gates at whatever hour of the day the word came around that OSHA was in town.

This is my point... Lots of things can cause harm if used incorrectly, lots of things can cause death, the crux of all my statements is that one should not rush to use any tools like a pro until experience is gained. But experience will never be gained if we prevent the tool from being used in the first place. Experience is akin to common sense but doesn't replace it. However, old construction workers that still have everything God borne them with (all body parts) likely had common sense before they gained the experience.

Nevertheless, having one doesn't mean the other comes naturally or easily.
I have been shot, there.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
I have been shot, there.
For edit :Go to your post and look for the 3 verticle dots on the right side of that post. touch them and a drop down box will show edit and report.
 

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Revolver, lever, bolt, pistol cal carbine.
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The word "torch" comes to mind.
 
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