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My friends history, former Golden Gloves Boxer.

One night I had NCO staff duty at the Army Hospital and was talking with the Oral Surgeon. He mentioned my friend was well known among all the Military Oral Surgeons.

They treated many of the Army, Marine, Navy and some Air Force members who had their jaw broken by my friend.

A Marine company commander had my Army friend report to his office. The commander said you're not in trouble, I just wanted to see the guy who knocked out three of my Marines.

My friend is a very friendly guy. Just like a top gunfighter, many wanted to challenge him.

With a bad guy up close, I think a knockout blow would be faster than drawing your weapon from an EDC holster.

Especially, for those who are strong with enough skill for a one punch knockout?

Norm
I have never been in a real fight in my entire life and by God's grace, make it the remainder in such fashion. But to tangle with a firearm on your hip in a situation like that would not likely be a winning solution for someone like me unaccustomed to tangling like that.

But, if I had to tangle, and unable to get to my weapon, I used to box with my roommate and one of his boxing friends. It was a great deal. They said, you spar with us and hit us, but we won't hit you. I thought I was doing real well with the friend of my roommate until he pulled a punch an inch from my face which would have been a nasty one for sure.

A golden gloves boxer is a different animal than most of us old fogies.

But, at 5'6" with a 46 inch chest, 34 inch belly and about 185 lbs, I don't doubt that I still have a bit of upper body strength left, but not much stamina at all. No golden gloves boxer here, just sparred a few times and thought I was better than I obviously really was. So, I will go with the gun way before getting into a fist fight, but that portends a poor outcome if you haven't noticed someone getting that close before intervening before that if only verbal commands. Body language with these creeps means a lot and they look for someone that they believe will not be able to fight back.

Before getting into my 60's I never had anyone challenging me even walking around Los Angeles. Now that I look older, that protection seems to no longer be present.

But, avoidance is the best tactic and being aware of your surroundings. That is the most important thing any of us can do to avoid the trouble by looking for clues of being targeted in the first place. John Farnham notes that just looking around with your head on a swivel and walking like you can take care of yourself is usually enough to keep you from being a target.

But, to engage preferentially in a fist fight, nope, not my choice God forbid, and only as a last resort but then I still remember what my roommate taught me back in college as a last resort.
 

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The reason many like a snub nose revolver is that you can have your hand on it in a firing grip while in a coat pocket. That is way faster than a belt holster. But still, even with situational awareness, us old folks are not the same animal we were in our youth. When is the last time while walking down the street you did a 360° spin while walking to see who may be around you every so often? Probably over 50 years ago and not very likely to happen with the knees we have now. Someone coming in fast is going to catch you by surprise if they want to.

As with everything in life, it is best to pray often and know what it means to order your life so as to live for God and trust in Him for everything. I too hope that a situation like what is being discussed never ever happens to me or those I love.
 

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When I was a LEO I always had my hand on my BUG in my jacket pocket and pointing at the target when approaching. I would put a hole in the jacket and the semi-auto would jam, but I knew I could get the first shot out.
 

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In respect to banging out the bad guy with a head shot - that's a Hollywood scene. It seldom happens and is just as likely to result in a broken hand. I boxed both golden gloves and as a pro (a long, long time ago) and the few times I needed it on the street I was successful with a body shot - every time. I was a 'banger', but hurt my hand so many times - even while wrapped - I wouldn't even try a head shot unless he presents the angle of the jaw for a certain KO. Pull the weapon - today that means my heavy walking stick. Much, much more effective.
 

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When I was a kid my dad told me never to run from a fight and never back down. Needless to say, I was in a lot of fights. I never really like the idea but it was how I was raised. I didn't raise my son like that. I told him to avoid fighting if he can. Never run away but try and avoid fighting.

At my age now there is little chance I will get in a fight. I carry a knife in my back pocket and my gun on my side. If I had to I would use them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
Now a punch to the throat??? 😉
I'm adding that to my defensive techniques. The more options the better. Gave my 21 foot rule option earlier. Post #19

Now I have 3 options if an encounter with a bad guy makes me fear for my life.

I EDC to protect my life, not my billfold or other possessions that are replaceable.

Years ago when I first got my carry permit. My son told me, that permit has turned you into a wimp.

Thanks, Norm
 

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At 71 I think I would just shoot them.
I'm a decade behind you, and feel the same way!
For the pugilist, there's the matter of opponent distance, and their numbers. In a one-on-one, face-to-face confrontation, a fast uppercut or node-punch, may shut the "gunslinger" down before he can respond (in any manner but crumpling to the floor).

Multiple opponents, with ANY weapon, but especially with sidearms, present another set of tribulations altogether, the pugilistic Potential Aggressor. If a man with a sidearm allows a potential adversary to come within 3 meters of him (4 meters is better)*, he's already compromised his security. If the defender's sidearm is a serious one, in a serious holster (NOT the murderously slow flap-over military ones), and he is both sufficiently distant from and watchful of the PA's movements, the odds are very much on his side (assuming the defender has average or better reflexes) that he will either stop the aggressor in the act, or make him think better of his attentions before the "festivities" begin.
* = this is a corollary to the 21-step/7-yard rule. Unfortunately, keeping THAT large a "bubble" around us in everyday life is something of a big project. The "rules of thumb" with which I was trained were:
1.) Scan around you, AT LEAST 21 feet away or further, for possible problems, unusual motions, or events.
2.) Those "possible problems, unusual motions, or events" closer to you or your principal require non-provocative interaction (unless it is something catastrophic), such as eye contact (with smiles, please), or civil and polite verbal engagement while obviously moving nearer your principal, or between them and whomever approaches.
3.) Depending on the principal's wishes, or whether he might know the "approachers" well enough to trust them, a "stand down" (of SOME things, but not the defender's vigilance or suspicion) may be indicated, or conditions of interaction dictated. MY preference is for "visitors to stay 7+ meters away, approach the principal singly to no more than 3 meters, and make it clear to any who attempt to close the 3-meter distance that it's a definite "no-no" (THIS is why photo-ops make me gulp scotch, Maalox & Pepcid).
4.) If no deception is offered and their approach is in prelude to overt attack, then any and all escape/evasion techniques appropriate to the attack milieu, plus the vigorous use of "tools designed to deliver an instantaneous and disabling response to an unprovoked and unavoidable attack" (and we ALL know what THESE are) should be undertaken.
 

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If you punch a street punk out they will come back with their buddies and shoot up your front porch while your having dinner.

If you put one between their eyes at least there is a chance they may not know who it was or at the least there will be one less of them when they do drive by later.
 

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I knew a guy who was light weight Golden Gloves, very unassuming, quiet type wore glasses. One day at a soft ball game someone started an argument with him, he knocked the guy out before his glove hit the ground!
 

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I knew a guy who was light weight Golden Gloves, very unassuming, quiet type wore glasses. One day at a soft ball game someone started an argument with him, he knocked the guy out before his glove hit the ground!
Lightweight (135 lbs) matters little. If he has 'power' (can effectively transfer weight) he can potentially KO anyone. 'Hands of Stone' Roberto Duran dominated the bantam (118), feather (126), and lightweight pro ranks for many years, yet between bouts he walked around Panama at 210 lbs. He was typical.
 

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Lightweight (135 lbs) matters little. If he has 'power' (can effectively transfer weight) he can potentially KO anyone. 'Hands of Stone' Roberto Duran dominated the bantam (118), feather (126), and lightweight pro ranks for many years, yet between bouts he walked around Panama at 210 lbs. He was typical.
Interesting. I never heard about Duran before. Here is a news report stating exactly that, 210 lbs at an exhibition fight after the No Mas fight.

 

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When I was a kid my dad told me never to run from a fight and never back down. Needless to say, I was in a lot of fights. I never really like the idea but it was how I was raised. I didn't raise my son like that. I told him to avoid fighting if he can. Never run away but try and avoid fighting.

At my age now there is little chance I will get in a fight. I carry a knife in my back pocket and my gun on my side. If I had to I would use them.
I agree, if you can avoid a fight, that is the best. Unlike you, I have never had a real fight other than a couple of minor scraps as a teenager. Nothing that could even be called a fight really.

I used to walk around thinking I was a lot tougher than I likely ever was but I did look a bit of the part and I have always been muscular for my size despite not lifting any weights since I was a teenager.

And yes, I carry at least one gun and one knife for the same reasons. Now, I realize just how vulnerable I have always been in reality. There have been far too many documented one punch murders to not understand how powerful some folks punches can be. Most of us don't have a jaw that will handle a punch.

When I was preaching about once a month in prison, we had to do a yearly orientation class. I remember watching a video they presented of a riot in Pelikan Bay. A perp was standing next to an officer who looked to be well over 250 lbs and quite tall. The perp took him out with one punch that also broke his jaw. With nearly 15 years of dialysis, bone disease is common. Probably wouldn't take much to give me a broken jaw at this point.

So, I am with you, fighting unless it is the last resort is just not part of my battle plan, God forbid, if I was ever assaulted.
 

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Guess it would depend on the situation and skill . How close you are to the bad guy . One reason I got my CCW was feeling my age and the wear and tear on me . But I do know a few guys in their 70s I wouldn't want to get punched by . Few years back a blind older man had a guy break in , The bad guy got the snot stomped out of him . The blind guy was a retired Army Ranger if I remember right . Their are people out there that do have "hands are lethal weapons" .
Never underestimate Old Man Strength.
 

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When I was young and got in fights I always tried to hit them in the nose. A good hit to the nose will bleed real bad and they can't breathe well after that. My dad was a WW2 combat vet. A real tough guy. He taught me how to fight. Fighting was just a way of life for these guys. It was a much different time in this country when these guys were around.
 

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Not to belabor this further, but effective unarmed defense has very little to do with "muscular" or strength. Rather it is contingent upon timing; distance; power; and stamina - plus 2 or 3 years sparring 3 or 4 times every week to develop. It's gradual learning - you don't learn much while taking a lacing every day. Case in point - Stallone wanted to learn to fight for the 'Rocky' movie, therefore he hired Roberto Duran to spar with him. Both are little guys - about 5'6'' (don't believe wiki) and he thought it would be easy. He is a macho guy and told Duran to stop pulling his punches and let his punches go. Big mistake - Duran ripped the body mercilessly - when he was able to be helped to his feet he headed for the restroom for a long session of retching and barfing. I think that was one of the two times filming was suspended for a couple of weeks while Stallone recovered. I was an undefeated pro about 3 weight divisions above Duran, but I would never even spar with a guy like him. He was an animal and I'm not anxious to die. Carry a substantial cane and aggressively step in and take out a knee - that should work every time!
 
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