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Discussion Starter #21
Yes. you did. The only reason I noticed is because it happened to me last week , same word. LOL
I've used Skidmore's Leather Cream. It works good on saddles, bags and holsters. You may want to keep using that plastic bag a while longer before trying anything else. Better yet, wrap it in two bags tonight.
Sometimes my Okie talk gets the best of me even when I type ! Will add another plastic bag tonight . I got a Dragoon and thought maybe of trying to shove it into the holster but afraid it might make it to big and loose . My Colt Walker sure would ! If you ever tried carry Walker or a Dragoon for very long you will know why the carried them on the saddle ! A pommel holster I think were called .
 

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Neatsfoot rejuvenates old dried out leather, and softens new leather, but too much of it can weaken the leather where it's under stress, like straps and slings.
This is true.

I have been making holsters for over 40 years now,,,
When leather dries out people have the tendency to drown it in neatsfoot.

That's a very bad thing.

Just wipe on a thin film and let it seep into the leather over a day or two,,,
Repeating this is often necessary, but again,,,
Don't go overboard with it.

Too much neatsfoot on dry leather can and will turn it into mush.

Also, resist the tendency to apply it to the flesh side,,,
Apply a thin film only to the top grain side,,,
Let it seep it's way through on it's own.

Aarond

.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I purchased a Model1917 Eddystone rifle several years ago which still had its original sling . The sling had been in a family for a long time , they were not sure how it was acquired just the grand dad had it for as long as could be remembered . The sling had been drawn up tight to the rifle for years and of course first thing I wanted to do was give the rifle a complete cleaning and going over before shooting it . When I was removing the leather sling were the leather had been bent going thru the loop (sorry going blank on correct name . Long day) it had been so dry and seemed only the top layer of leather was intact which I failed to see and it broke . I felt sick to my stomach . Not sure if their was a way to save it or not besides leaving it alone . The leather had a deep groove were it had eaten into the metal . I still feel bad when looking at the old sling , it hangs beside my gun safe . Wished someome had used some conditioner on it . The rest of sling was ok and I rubbed some type of saddle lotion my wifes family used on their horse stuff . I guess I am just pushing take care of your leather slings or holsters or you will be sorry . I bought a repro leather sling for it and put it on it .
 

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soonerfan66, I need to ask you. I have a 1860 revolver, the reason I do not have a period correct holster, is b ecause they were desinged to were on the right side. That means I would need to draw with my left hand. I am right handed. How did you handle this, or are you left handed.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
You can still draw with your right hand . There is a certain way to do it and I would butcher it if I tried to explain it . Youtube has videos on it that can show you how its done better then me . I have read one reason besides comfort in the saddle the revolver was carried butt forward was the sword was on the left and drawn with right hand and if they needed the revolver at same time they crossdrawed but if just needed the revolver the used the right . You can get the hang of it pretty quick . Had a friend who was into the reenacting civil war cavalry heavy and he could pull it out pretty darn fast even with the flap in the way . I think Wild Bill Hickok carried his Navy Colts butts forward for one .
 

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Discussion Starter #26
If I had to carry back in the old west I like the crossdraw with my right hand , revolver on my left side . Just feels better for some reason to me . Think probably a little quick drawing with revolver on the right and drawing with your right hand , butt toward the back . Never heard of any test on that but that's my 2 cents worth !!!
 

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The revolver was on the right side - butt forward - and the sabre on the left side. The strong side was more often the right - so a cavalryman using his sabre would use his strong arm (right) to wield the sabre in combat and the left hand to control his mount.

A Cavalry holster was never meant for quick-draw. I am not absolutely certain of this, but it is my understanding that the most common reason for a cowboy to carry a sidearm was to shoot his own horse in the event that he slipped from the saddle and was about to be dragged by the uncontrolled horse. Just something that was passed along to me over the years. Also, the 'quick-draw' thing seems to be a Hollywierd notion. There were very few 'Hollywierd Western Shoot Outs' in the real West. Most killings were done from ambush. The 'Code Of The West' was also a Hollywierd invention. Just as the "Saloon Gal" as depicted in the movies: there were basic types of businesses. Saloons that served alcohol, Gaming Halls that had gambling and pool tables, and brothels where the 'Ladies Of The Evening' plied their trade. Hollywierd rolled them all into one to make movies scenes more convenient.
 

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The revolver was on the right side - butt forward - and the sabre on the left side. The strong side was more often the right - so a cavalryman using his sabre would use his strong arm (right) to wield the sabre in combat and the left hand to control his mount.

A Cavalry holster was never meant for quick-draw. I am not absolutely certain of this, but it is my understanding that the most common reason for a cowboy to carry a sidearm was to shoot his own horse in the event that he slipped from the saddle and was about to be dragged by the uncontrolled horse. Just something that was passed along to me over the years. Also, the 'quick-draw' thing seems to be a Hollywierd notion. There were very few 'Hollywierd Western Shoot Outs' in the real West. Most killings were done from ambush. The 'Code Of The West' was also a Hollywierd invention. Just as the "Saloon Gal" as depicted in the movies: there were basic types of businesses. Saloons that served alcohol, Gaming Halls that had gambling and pool tables, and brothels where the 'Ladies Of The Evening' plied their trade. Hollywierd rolled them all into one to make movies scenes more convenient.
I saw a cowboy historian on TV that said to his knowledge there were only two cowboy shootouts one on one in recorded history.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I saw a cowboy historian on TV that said to his knowledge there were only two cowboy shootouts one on one in recorded history.
I know one was Wild Bill Hickok and ? Tutt , what was the other one ? I remember to that old saying about fast is good but accuracy kills or something along that line . It's funny how the number of kills and shootouts some gunfighters were claimed to have vs the truth .
 

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I know one was Wild Bill Hickok and ? Tutt , what was the other one ? I remember to that old saying about fast is good but accuracy kills or something along that line . It's funny how the number of kills and shootouts some gunfighters were claimed to have vs the truth .
The other fight might have been the one in Tombstone with Wyatt Earp and the Clanton Gang. As far as "the Code Of The West" I believe that was an invention of early novel writers who romanticized events out West for Eastern readers.

Getting off topic here and I apologize for it.
 

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James Butler Hickock and Dave Tutt in the town square of Springfield Missouri, over a Waltham watch Tutt took from Hickock for a gambling debt, in 1865. Tutt said he was going to wear it on the town square the next day and Hickock told him not to. Tutt did, I think Tutt fired first and Hickock fired last....and best. Supposedly that gunfight gave birth to the "walk and draw" myth started by Hollyweird and "Gunsmoke" started every episode with for.....ever?

There was more than two, "one on one" gunfights. Clay Allison, a New Mexico gunslinger/basket case had more than two. Jim Masterson, Marshall of Dodge at the time I believe, Bat's brother, was killed in a one on one confrontation when he didn't use his revolver and the other guy did. The "Three Guardsman" Deputy US Marshall's to Isaac Parker...oh crap, I forgot who all of them were but two were Bill Tilghman and Chris Madsen, had more than a few one on one confrontations. Ahh...remembered the other, Heck Thomas, who I believe the TV series Hec Ramsey was based on.....if my memory is working.

Thee was a lot of "dry gulchin'" going on as well, as has been mentioned. Deacon Jim Miller was famous as a gun for hire and preferred a shotgun. Supposedly it was Miller who killed Pat Garret. Obviously Tom Horn has to be mentioned. The OK Corral has been mentioned and historians are still arguing over it. There was a PILE of little known gunfights "out west" up to right before WWI.

In my late 20's I had an obsessive interest in gunfighters and subsequently acquired about 20 books on them. Once in a while I still break one out and read it.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I have read a lot on how a lot of the great gunfighters were really just famous for robbing banks , trains , stage coaches ect and didn't have many if any true shootouts . Some were around when one cerntain event took place . And some didn't even kill anyone and if they did it was very few compared to the legend . Some like John Wesley Harden , Clay Alison did have a high count and were psychopaths . Others like Jim Miller and Tom Horn were hired killers and no telling for sure how many they murdered .
 

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Hardin...that's one I couldn't remember. Talk bout an interesting, unusual history. Served his time, became a lawyer, never developed a practice of any account, shot in the back of the head in a bar in El Paso. SUPPOSEDLY the defense of the guy who shot Hardin was that Hardin should have seen him in the mirror behind the bar. When asked why he didn't confront Hardin he replied, "I didn't want to commit suicide." If all that's to be believed. Uhhh...Bill Longley, another Texas gun slinger comes to mind but I don't remember much about him other than he was a killer. Bill Doolin paid a steep price, I believe collected by Heck Thomas. There was the Cherokee outlaw who was deadly but I can't recall his name. Ned something? I can see the picture of him hanging on a door, dead, in the book I have on him. Elfego Baca was the real deal....though he certainly didn't look like it. Thompson.....Texas gunfighter, gambler....can't grasp his first name....BEN!!! Ben Thompson. Dallas Stoudenmeyer, also Texas, had the hair of the dog in him until someone else had more. Jim Gillette, Charlie Siringo, Luke Short, Bill Tilghman, mentioned previously, was a lawman into his 70's and gunned down by a punk kid in an Oklahoma oil boom town.

One of the books I have is "Great Gunfighters of the Kansas Cowtowns." It's pretty good and I thought well researched. Another is "GUNFIGHTERS"....if I remember right, it's not bad but a little hokey and shaky in places. Good grief...I need to get one out...got me interested again!
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Cherokee Bill ? can't remember last name maybe , was a Oklahoma bad guy ? Heck Thomas , Bill Tighman and Chris Madden AKA The 3 Guardsman of Oklahoma . I think Texas might of had 1 or 2 tough guys . :stir: Think Doc Holiday killed 1-2 maybe but was in lots of shootouts . One that always surprised me was Billy the Kid was only proven for sure to of killed 4 but was in like 12-14 shootouts !!
 

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Got the book out, Ned Christie was the one I was thinking of. I THINK Cherokee Bill was associated with Belle Starr.....I think...:confused:

sooner, you & Firpo live right there in the midst of a pile of history. I used to travel down through Oklahoma just visiting sites. Many are out of the way. Guthrie is a cool place to visit. Spent an entire day in Coffeeville, Kansas going over all the Dalton shootout stuff. Bill Doolin was supposed to have been in on that but his horse came up lame. Oddly, I never got to Dodge or Abilene, Kansas. Benn to most James gang sites in Missouri.

Boy, all that was a loooong time ago!! Wonder I remember it.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Thanks Sharps . Missouri deep in history itself . My great, great X granddad was in the Missouri cavalry in civil war , our family still has his muster papers . That's one reason of my interest in cavalry stuff . I had forgotten about Ned Christie . Cherokee Bill was leader of a gang of 15-17 year old half indians , half black young guys that ran wild for a bit . All got hung like most . A revolver used by one of the Daltons just sold on Proxibid for $200,000-275,000 few weeks back . Was watching it but not for my wallet . Robbers Cave in S.E. Oklahoma is cool , couldn't make the hike to it now !!
 

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Got the book out, Ned Christie was the one I was thinking of. I THINK Cherokee Bill was associated with Belle Starr.....I think...:confused:

sooner, you & Firpo live right there in the midst of a pile of history. I used to travel down through Oklahoma just visiting sites. Many are out of the way. Guthrie is a cool place to visit. Spent an entire day in Coffeeville, Kansas going over all the Dalton shootout stuff. Bill Doolin was supposed to have been in on that but his horse came up lame. Oddly, I never got to Dodge or Abilene, Kansas. Benn to most James gang sites in Missouri.

Boy, all that was a loooong time ago!! Wonder I remember it.
I wish we had some local gunfight sites to visit. Seems all we have is historical lynching sites.
We're really off-subject now.
 

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That's right about Cherokee Bill. I had completely forgotten. His story is in the same book as Ned Christie, I think. I'll have to check. If you have an interest, that book is from the Time Life series on the old west and is simply called "Gunfighters." Not the same as the on I mentioned earlier. Time Life's is pretty good as is that entire series.

https://www.amazon.com/GUNFIGHTERS-...&sprefix=Time+Life+Gunfighters,aps,260&sr=1-1

40+ years ago I was surprised to learn that for the number of battles/skirmishes during the Civil War Missouri is third behind Virginia and Tennessee. I guess that shouldn't have come as a surprise as the war was being fought for 2 years on the Kansas/Missouri border before it officially started at Fort Sumpter in South Carolina.

The period of Missouri history that interests me most is from about the 1760's, the founding of St. Louis, until about 1840. That period from 1760 until statehood in 1820 is really difficult to find much on. It's out there but Missouri was largely overshadowed by the War for Independence, the opening of the "Old Northwest", (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, southern Wisconsin), the settling of Kentucky and Tennessee, the War of 1812 and the Fur Trade era, even though most of the foundations, headquarters of the companies and the market of the Fur Trade were in St. Louis. So, most historians sorta pass over Missouri on their way to the Great Plains and the Rockies and the Gold Rush except for Lewis & Clark. Clark is buried in Belfontaine cemetery near St. Louis as is Sam Hawken and several fur trade era personalities and actually, a lot of figures from the western expansion era.

I better shut up....I love that stuff and would go on for pages.
 
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